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A small vinaigrette, 2.7cms x 2.1cms x 1.3cms, Birmingham 1800 by Joseph Taylor? I am assuming that this is Joseph Taylor and not John Thornton as the cartouche is slightly rounded at the corners but I can find no details that Joseph Taylor made vinaigrettes whereas John Thornton did. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Trevorg

I've always seen this mark attributed to Joseph Taylor.

Miles

Thank you for taking time out to reply. That was my thought also but I was confused as to whether or not he made vinaigrettes as they are not attributed to him in Jackson's.

Trevor

Hi,

If one takes a look at the Birmingham Assay Office online database of maker's marks, it will be seen that Joseph Taylor entered three marks on the 21st September 1790, an incuse 'JT' (for watchcases) and two other 'JT' marks, from the address of Aston, Near Birmingham. It was not until the 28th April 1813 that Joseph Taylor entered three punches (2 x oblong, 1 x oval) all 'IT', from the Newhall Street address.

If you work with the above information, and the vinaigrette shown in this topic was assayed in 1800, and bears an 'IT' mark, then you would be forgiven for assuming that this is not the work of Joseph Taylor, but of another.

In the collection of the Birmingham Assay Office there is a toothbrush assayed in 1797, and a vinaigrette assayed in 1811, that both bear an 'IT' mark and are attributed by the BAO to be the work of Joseph Taylor. The attributions are likely to be correct, if so, then the database shown on the BAO website appears to be incorrect. The legders at the BAO contain ink impressions of the maker's marks, and having seen photographs of Joseph Taylor's two seperate entries, the 1790 entry contains the three impressions, firstly that of the incuse 'JT', which is very clear, but the next two impressions appear to be mere blobs of ink. The 1813 impression are clear enough, all 'IT' 's. I think what has happened is that whoever prepared the images for the BAO website has made the assumption that the two unreadable blobs in the 1790 entry would have followed the same format of letters that appear in the 'JT' incuse example, when it is far more likely that the two unreadable impression should in fact read 'IT'.

Trev.

Hello,

And therein lies my error and the confusion. I used Jacksons (page 354) as my sole reference point and that lists an "IT" mark for both Joseph Taylor (1788 [oval] on a marrow spoon & 1794 [oblong] on a caddy spoon) and for John Thornton (1801 [oblong] on a vinaigrette). Had I referred to the BAO website I could have eliminated John Thornton (or added to the confusion) as they show his mark to have a pellet between the I and the T whereas Jacksons does not show a pellet.

Thank you for sharing the details of the BAO, next time I am in England I will arrange a visit and possibly take the item along for comparison with the one in their collection.

Trevorg