1702 Queen Anne Caudle Cup

[legrandmogol]

I believe this cup is by London Silversmith John Downes of London c.1702/3. It has been repaired in several places. If you google 1702 caudle cup you'll find an article about this particular cup but that is not me, I only just received it. My question is whether the engraved decoration is original or later. I have never seen English silver with this type of decoration but I have seen French and German pieces from the period with similar engravings. It looks to me like the hallmarks were placed after the engraving. Any help or thoughts would be appreciated.

[AG2012]

Hi,
The engraving is Victorian.
Regards

[legrandmogol]

Yeah probably, it looks more Victorian baroque fantasy style than genuine baroque. Repaired after that at some point

[MGArgent]

Nice acquisition, it looks like the repairs were well executed and blend in seamlessly.

You mentioned:

It looks to me like the hallmarks were placed after the engraving.

I believe you are referring to the fact that the engraving does not run overtop of the hallmarks. I think it is typical that most 18th and 19th century English engravers were careful to avoid damaging the original hallmarks when adding later decoration.

If the hallmarks were punched after the engraving, I think you would see traces of distorted engraving inside the hallmarks which there are not.

As discussed elsewhere on the forum, even contemporary engravings would likely have been carried out after the item returned from assay, indicating that hallmarks would never be punched over an engraving even if the engraving was original to the piece:

The engraving is likely the last of the work to be carried out, with the exception of a final buff and polish.

There are certainly examples of early porringers/caudle cups with contemporary engravings, so you really need to judge based on the style of the engraving.

On another note, I think I found the article that you mentioned. Here is an excerpt from the article that I believe details the discovery of this "sleeper" piece at an antique store in Brooklyn a few years ago (2015):

I asked the owner if I could have a look at the two-handled cup. When he handed it to me, he explained that it was not sterling. I told him I wanted to see it just the same. He asked if I was looking for anything in particular. "Just looking," I replied.

As any experienced collector knows, it is better to play ignorant and keep a straight face -- you don't want to kill a sale.

While examining this handsome piece, I immediately noticed the initials "S*F" engraved on the bottom, which belonged to the original owner. I was unable to find the cup's origin, however.

The proprietor and I struck a deal... he quickly wrapped the cup for me and off I went.

...I soon fetched my jeweler's loupe to zoom in on these initials and I noticed a "Britannia" mark, indicating it was not only earlier than I thought but it was a higher standard of silver content.

...The date letter accompanying the other marks indicates ...the years 1702-03.

I can only dream of one day finding a hidden gem like this.

[legrandmogol]

that is the article and I wish that were me too. Thanks for your input. I figured it was a later engraving but was hoping to be wrong. It is still a nice cup and if I am going to have a Victorianized decoration on the cup at least it's an engraving rather than repousse work.