Sugar Nips - Purportedly c.1760 - English or Continental?

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
SimonJersey
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:10 pm

Sugar Nips - Purportedly c.1760 - English or Continental?

Postby SimonJersey » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:13 pm

Hi all,

I have put this in the English (London) silver section, as that what I think it purports to be. However as you will see I have a few questions as to its age and origination. (Please move to a different section if appropriate)

Image

Image

The markings on the finger rings don’t match up to the expected lion passant and makers mark. Unless they are worn beyond recognition - I’m not sure what they are, could they be Irish or continental? (Hanau?)

Depending on the above, would they be c.1760 (If English)?
Are the interesting engravings of the period? (Noted mythical sea figure on one side and the crest of a stags head on the other)

Many thanks,

Simon

Traintime
contributor
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:44 pm

Re: Sugar Nips - Purportedly c.1760 - English or Continental?

Postby Traintime » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:20 am

I hate to ignore marks, but I would ask you this...does the Stag Head emblem appear to be stamped? To me, it does not match the primary design elements and seems to be applied offset on what may have been a blank reserve...therefore personalization or customized for a particular buyer? And if it is not hand engraved this raises more questions about why would a stamp be created unless repetition was planned...?

SimonJersey
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:10 pm

Re: Sugar Nips - Purportedly c.1760 - English or Continental?

Postby SimonJersey » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:44 am

Traintime wrote:I hate to ignore marks, but I would ask you this...does the Stag Head emblem appear to be stamped? To me, it does not match the primary design elements and seems to be applied offset on what may have been a blank reserve...therefore personalization or customized for a particular buyer? And if it is not hand engraved this raises more questions about why would a stamp be created unless repetition was planned...?


Hi Traintime,

I have had a close look and would say that the family crest of a Stag's head appears engraved rather than stamped:

Image

Image

Regards,

Simon

Traintime
contributor
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:44 pm

Re: Sugar Nips - Purportedly c.1760 - English or Continental?

Postby Traintime » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:41 pm

Aah, much better...I can see the metal to the left was not displaced by stamping. However, I think this might be cast-in (original hand work, then added into the mold)...notice first the irregularities or bubbles in the outer edges. Then we see continuous and matching striations down both arms to the central area that could only be made after everything was joined together...looks like finishing work (rather than wear) to eliminate left-over bubbles. We have been seeing some re-castings (in various silver grades including sterling) that leave original marks which appear worn. We don't know who is doing this or for whom, maybe even museums. [I personally suspect sources in Italy.] Not to say that yours is definitely a re-cast...but I would be suspicious from the get go.


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