Who’s mark is underneath George Ferris’ mark?

[mk209]

The mark GF has been noted on London assayed spoons 1798 to 1819 (Silvermakersmarks.co.uk) but now here’s a spoon that could give a few answers. Hallmarked for 1783 but overstruck with a GF mark (George Ferris?) the engraving shows a date of 1815 so did GF adorn this spoon in 1815 and overstruck his mark?





Matt

[legrandmogol]

you can definitely see part of the original makers mark underneath the GF, also it looks a lot in the picture like the original monogram and possibly some of the original decoration was also erased for the new one.

[WarrenKundis]

Good day gentlemen,

Am particularly interested in your discussion since I had just be doing some research on George Ferris myself. As I read Phil's comments on Ferris, he stated in the Exeter section that his marks had been seen from 1812 - 1832. Also noted: flatware maker mentioned in Exeter records 1812 - 1860. Mark is also displayed in the London section which states: Possibly the mark of George Ferris of Exeter over stamped on the mark of his supplier. Here on 925 states that George Ferris registered this mark in 1800 and died 1840. Realize that it creates some confusion over what has been posted above even though it may answer the question of who the first mark may be.

This spoon I am describing is also a bright cut of the same style engraved with four initials and a date of 1812. Makers mark, duty mark, sterling mark, and Exeter mark are clear to see. Now the date letter is only a partial of what appears to be an S, for Exeter that mark corresponds to 1814.

So again there is some question as to when he engraved his work although an engraving can be added anytime with what ever needs to be added for the client. But twice with two different items by Mr Ferris. My apologies for no images, it is not mine.

I pray this does not add more confusion than it solves.

Warren

[WarrenKundis]

After re-reading Phil's London entry on GF it does say that this mark was seen from 1798 - 1819. The comment about about the over stamp does appear on the end of that same column.

My apologies.
W

[silvermakersmarks]

Upon checking my sources I realise that I confused George Ferris I and his son, George Ferris II, when quoting date ranges. Ferris senior's dates (from Jackson) are 1800 until his death in 1840; Miles Harrison in his book Exeter and West Country Silver 1700-1900 quotes 1800 to 1832 for mention of Ferris in the Assay Books; I have now used the latter dates in my entry for Ferris.

Phil

[WarrenKundis]

Thank you Phil much appreciated.

Brings up a few questions: Did Father and son use the same makers mark registered in London then at a later date in Exeter?

Appears that both men were alive in the circa 1815 time frame, so in Matt's case did the father or son use old stock to create the finished decorated and engraved item? In the spoon I described did one of them finish it off after the fact, assay, for a different client?

Phil you mentioned supplier, was it common practice for silversmiths to purchase blank spoons on which they added their decoration and maker's mark?

Any legal issues with over stamping someone else's mark?

Warren

[Granmaa]

Hello All,

Regarding GF marks: as far as I can gather, George Ferris I ceased manufacturing in 1832 and turned to retailing in partnership with his son. George Ferris II never registered a mark of his own, so any GF will be that of the father.

Regarding your spoon, I think the only part likely to have been carried out by Ferris is the '1815' date. The initials seem more consistent with 1783.

Miles