I beg your help! Thomas Whipham, Thomas Wallis II.........

[polo_fer_lauren]

Hello!!!
I'm here again!

Could you help me with this marker? Thomas Whipham, Thomas Wallis, or may be other one?


This mark is from a table spoon. I think is from London 1789. Don't you?




Thank you in advance.

Fer.
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[Granmaa]

Hello,

This is the mark of Thomas Wallis II. I think it's 1809 because this mark wasn't registered until 1792. Also, I've never seen a fiddle pattern spoon from such an early date.
Here is a previous thread with some indecision between Whipham, Wallis and James Wilkes.

http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3432
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[polo_fer_lauren]

Firstly thank Miles for your help.

Well, it was very interesting to read the previous thread with the indecision between Whipham, Wallis and James Wilkes. I was very instructive.
By other hand................I'm more confused than before!!!! :)

You say: "Also, I've never seen a fiddle pattern spoon from such an early date" but in this web :http://www.antiquesilverspoons.co.uk/patterns.htm , say that this pattern first occurred in England from the 1760’s.

Another matter is about the maker mark. You say:"I think it's 1809 because this mark wasn't registered until 1792". But I can see similar maker mark by T. Wallis II from 1789 in the next web page: http://www.silversugartongs.com/london/Thomas%20Wallis%20II/Thomas_Wallis_II.htm.

So, Am I stil in a mistake?

I hope you can understand what I mean. My English is terrible!!!. Sorry.
Thank you again.
Fer.
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[Granmaa]

Fer,

The website you refer to says that the pattern without the shoulders on the stem near the bowl first occured in the 1760's. The website correctly points out that this is often called Oar pattern, your spoon does have shoulders which came later c.1800 and is called fiddle pattern.

If you look carefully at the marks on the other website, you will see that the first part of the W is straight post 1792, whereas it is curved pre-1792. Yours is straight which is why I thought it was not 1789.

Miles
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[nigel le sueur]

Fer

This is from a pair of sugar tongs dated 1809, as you can see the Makers Mark (Thomas Wallis ll)

Regards

Nigel
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[polo_fer_lauren]

Now I can see clearly!!!!!! Your are on the right. It is surely 1809.

Thank you very much Miles and thank you very much Nigel!!!!!

Fer, the beginner.
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[Scotprov]

Fiddle pattern was first made in England in 1739, but this had no shoulders at the bowl, and the end of the handle turned up not down, probably to replace one of a French set.
In 1769, the Chawners produced a service for a customer with" fiddle heads" it states in Ian Pickford's Silver Flatware. The vast majority of fiddle pattern flatware was made after 1800, and normally one should expect it to be of the later date as this came to the fore with the heavier classicism of the Regency.
In the late 1760's & 1770's there was a fashion for Old English Feather edge with shoulders by the bowl. This only lasted for a short while in the main, though I have seen an 1807 York table spoon of this pattern.

Richard
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