Help with shell-back tablespoons

[rat-tail]

Hi could anyone help with this rather unusual maker's mark on these two heavy shell-back tablespoons which I believe I've dated correctly for London 1746. Looks like BG or BC or BE or could it be an overstrike? Have shown the marks from both sides and on both spoons. Any thoughts appreciated. Shells are quite small and a little worn - hope they show on the pic. Thanks Frank











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[dognose]

Hi Frank,

That looks like the mark of Benjamin Cartwright I (Grimwade 142) who entered his mark at Goldsmiths Hall on the 20th June 1739.

Regards Trev.
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[rat-tail]

Thanks Trev - that was speed of light stuff. Can I pick your brains for any biog snippets you may have handy?
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[dognose]

Hi Frank,

Heal records the following: 'Cartwright, Benjamin, working goldsmith & toy-maker; Crown & Pearl, Bartolomew Close, or Crown & Pearl, near George Inn, West Smithfield, 1739-1754. No 18 West Smithfield. 1768-1774. All three addresses refer to the same house.

Grimwade notes that there is no record of apprenticeship of Freedom. First mark entered as smallworker, 22nd June 1732. Address: 3, Horseshoes, Pedlers Lane, Cow Cross. Second mark as largeworker: 20th June 1739, third mark: 19th May 1748, fourth mark: 18th February 1757.

Regards Trev.
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[rat-tail]

Trev - thanks for your time - appreciate it
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[buckler]

I have problems on the biographic details of this guy.
Please allow me to annoy the rest of the world with them !

There were at least two Benjamin Cartwights, which both Heal and Grimwade (and I think the PR1773) struggled to separate.
Knowing that one died in 1771 enables more sense to be made.

Benjamin CARTWRIGHT I -Probably free of the Blacksmiths

22 June 1722
Incuse mark entered as smallworker at 3 Horse Shoes, Pedlars Lane , Cow Cross (D2/p14Ca)

20 June 1739
Mark entered as largeworker at Crown & Pearl , Bartholomew Close (D2/p14Da)
Further marks there 1748 and 1757

24 May 1758
William Tant, son of William Tant buckle- carver was turned over to Benjamin Cartwright, Blacksmith

(22 May 1754
Mark of Benjamin Cartwright II ,described as "Junior" so presumed to be Ben I's son , entered as largeworker, Smithfield. His subsequent marks were at Kings Arms & Snuffers in the Strand, 1756 (D2/p14Ac) and Paved Alley, Pall Mall (B3/p23Aa) in 1770, where he appears without category in PR1773).

Heal records the following
Benjamin Cartwright ,Working goldsmith and toy-maker with three addresses- which he comments refers to the same house !
1739 -1754
Crown & Pearl , Bartholomew Close
Crown & Pearl near ye George Inn , West Smithfield
1768 -1774
No 18 West Smithfield
Certainly No 18, West Smithfield is next to the George Inn, but neither are in Bartholomew Close. All however are in map square (D2/p14Da)
1749 - 1756
Benjamin Cartwright, Plateworker and Toymaker , Kings Arms & Snuffers , Strand This is probably "Junior"

Heal page 121opp gives a trade card - which shows the Crown and Pearl

Benjamin Cartwright was fined for substandard buckles in the 1763 - 1769 period (Goldsmiths Company records)

19 Oct 1768.
The Proceedings of the Old Bailey Ref: t17681019-11
"Benjamin Cartwright . I keep a silversmith's shop in Smithfield. On the
24th of September my shew-glass was broke between seven and eight in the
morning, before I came down stairs, my servant had got the boy at the bar;
I had two dozen and two stock-buckles in my shew-glass, and when I came to
count them, there were only seventeen remaining in the glass."
[This is Ben I ]

15 June 1771
Will of Benjamin Cartwright , Goldsmith of St Bartholomew the Great, City of London proved at PCC. (I will spend my £3.50 and get a copy - eventually !)

According to Grimwade Benjamin Cartwright I also appears in the PR1773 without category at Paved Stones, Smithfield but this seems to be a confusion with his son by the writers of the PR1773. Paved Stones and Paved Alley seem similar

Location References eg (D2/p14Da) are to map cordinates to Horwood, D2 being Horwood map sheet D2 and p14Da being the LTP A-z or Regency London reference
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[dognose]

Hi Clive,

Many thanks for posting the information and for trying to make some sense in the midst of confusion.

It would appear then, datewise, that the maker of Frank's spoon is BC I, who was also the issuer of this tradecard. Or have I confused myself?



Regards Trev.
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[buckler]

Hi Trev
The mark appears to be Grimwade No144 and the dated 1746. Both match Ben I nicely. So I am sure is the trade card

However I quote the tailpiece of a letter from David Beasley , the Librarian of Goldsmiths Hall

"A healthy dose of scepticism is essential for the wary researcher and that includes the information above."

Very good advice !
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[dognose]

Good advice indeed, thanks Clive.
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[rat-tail]

Thanks Clive and Trev. Our friend Mr Cartwright sounds like he might have been a bit of a ducker and a diver. What with three addresses, some slightly dodgy silver and a possible fake robbery, plus a convenient confusion with his son. But we'll take it all with a good pinch of salt because he made a good pair of spoons. Regards Frank
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