Unregistered mark A over I S over N quartefoil.

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Stallard99
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu May 19, 2022 8:44 am

Unregistered mark A over I S over N quartefoil.

Post by Stallard99 »

Hi, I have this salt hallmarked for 1764, the hallmark is listed as unregistered ( Grimwade 3869) ,but is very similar to one allegedly used by Ann Smith.
Wondered if any one has come across this mark before?
This is the item
https://flic.kr/p/2nmydS1

This is the mark
https://flic.kr/p/2nmrFRi

The lower mark here I believe is the same as mine and has been described incorrectly.

https://flic.kr/p/2nmyebs


Apologies for links, Imgur wouldn't work for me for some reason.
dognose
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Location: England

Re: Unregistered mark A over I S over N quartefoil.

Post by dognose »

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

Please embed your images. Very few members will click on links.

https://postimages.org (choose 'Share', then copy the 'Hotlink for forums' code) is recommended.

Trev.
Stallard99
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu May 19, 2022 8:44 am

Re: Unregistered mark A over I S over N quartefoil.

Post by Stallard99 »

Ok, thanks, I'll have a look at doing that tomorrow.
Stallard99
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu May 19, 2022 8:44 am

Re: Unregistered mark A over I S over N quartefoil.

Post by Stallard99 »

Stallard99 wrote:Hi, I have this salt hallmarked for 1764, the hallmark is listed as unregistered ( Grimwade 3869) ,but is very similar to one allegedly used by Ann Smith.
Wondered if any one has come across this mark before?
This is the item.

Image

This is the mark


Image

The lower mark here I believe is the same as mine and has been described incorrectly.



Image

Apologies for links, Imgur wouldn't work for me for some reason.
silvermakersmarks
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Re: Unregistered mark A over I S over N quartefoil.

Post by silvermakersmarks »

I think you are right that the "NS & AN" mark is a mis-identified "IS & AN" mark - the distortion fooled me! Unfortunately it doesn't get us any closer to an identification.

Phil
Stallard99
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu May 19, 2022 8:44 am

Re: Unregistered mark A over I S over N quartefoil.

Post by Stallard99 »

Yes, it's a shame, I do find the similarities between the two interesting , especially that they appear to use the same font.
Make me wonder if I.S is connected with A.S , especially as Ann Smith marital status was unknown and didn't register her mark untill 1771, 7 years after this was marked.
Probably me being optimistic in the long run I suppose, it's a shame that records weren't kept like the company of watermen and lightermen did for the Thames River workers.
silvermakersmarks
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Re: Unregistered mark A over I S over N quartefoil.

Post by silvermakersmarks »

While I cannot compare the Goldsmith's Company records to those of any other guild, they did keep records, which is why we can identify so many marks today. However two key registers have been lost, the 1739-1758 Smallworkers' Register and the 1758-1773 Largeworkers' Register. This mark would have been recorded in the latter register. Grimwade's chapter heading of "Unregistered Marks" is therefore a misnomer. We can't even blame the Goldsmith's Company for losing the registers as they were requested by a 1773 Parliamentary enquiry and allegedly never returned, possibly destroyed by the fire which burned down the Houses of Parliament in 1834.

Phil
Stallard99
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu May 19, 2022 8:44 am

Re: Unregistered mark A over I S over N quartefoil.

Post by Stallard99 »

Ah, that explains a lot, similar thing happened to war records but they were water damaged.
Might try a broader record search, might get lucky.
I doesn't put me off the piece, I got it with the aim of preservation anyway, so at least the workmanship will survive.
silverly
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Re: Unregistered mark A over I S over N quartefoil.

Post by silverly »

I know I’m talking out of turn but maybe someone just did the punch incorrectly and it was used anyway for a while?
dognose
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Re: Unregistered mark A over I S over N quartefoil.

Post by dognose »

Would it be possible to capture a sharper close-up of the mark in question? If so, it can be added to our lost register marks project.

London Lost Registers & Unrecorded Marks

Trev.
Stallard99
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu May 19, 2022 8:44 am

Re: Unregistered mark A over I S over N quartefoil.

Post by Stallard99 »

I'll have a go when I get home.
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