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Unknown markings on 1764 serving spoon

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:18 pm
by Finn01
I've inherited this large spoon (roughly 30 cm long). The story goes that a Norwegian king gave this spoon to one of his lovers the moment she got pregnant and had to leave the kingdom to bear her bastard child.

Could anyone identify these markings?

My family is from the Netherlands, but I couldn't find a specialist here with enough knowledge about these markings.

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Re: Unknown markings on 1764 serving spoon

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:31 pm
by Finn01

Re: Unknown markings on 1764 serving spoon

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:50 pm
by dognose
Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

Please embed your images.

Trev.

Re: Unknown markings on 1764 serving spoon

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:22 pm
by Finn01
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Re: Unknown markings on 1764 serving spoon

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:02 pm
by WarrenKundis
Good evening Finn,

From top to bottom The Copenhagen three tower mark for 1764 guarantees a minimum silver purity of 826/1000. National master assay mark for Christopher Fabritius who served from 1749 - 1787. Makers mark of H over SO. Zodiac sign for Pisces assayed from 20 Feb - 20 Mar 1764.

Hope this helps
Warren

Do roll the marks counter clockwise to 12 which would make them easier to read.
W

Re: Unknown markings on 1764 serving spoon

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:48 am
by Qrt.S
Mind my saying but my sources tell that the guardein is Fredrik Fabritius because the year is 1764. Fredric's father Christopher took over the mark since 1767 after his son's sudden death that year, but...? No big deal anyway...

Re: Unknown markings on 1764 serving spoon

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:18 am
by WarrenKundis
No Qrt,

I always confuse them myself inspite of the fact that they are clearly marked here. The year mark is the only item that normally keeps me on track. Any thoughts on the makers mark?

Warren

Re: Unknown markings on 1764 serving spoon

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:24 am
by Qrt.S
@WarrenKundis,
Sorry, don't quite catch you now. Agree or disagree regarding the name of the guardian?

No idea of maker. Danish makers are rather badly registered, only about half of them are known. I believe Hose will pop in sooner or later. He might tell us more.

Re: Unknown markings on 1764 serving spoon

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:51 am
by WarrenKundis
Yes I would agree with you, only my confusion of the marks of the father and son make it difficult for me.

Warren

Re: Unknown markings on 1764 serving spoon

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:32 am
by Qrt.S
@WarrenKundis
OK, understood. This is what happened (at least how I have understood it). The father Christopher Fabritius working period as a coin guardein (m√łntguardein) was 1749-1761 and continues as a town/head guardein (stadsguardein) 1761-1787. His son Fredrik Fabritius' working period was 1787- 1823. But he died and his farther took over to 1823. The control mark on the spoon belongs to Christopher Fabritius not to Fredrik. Fredrik's marks looks a bit different. Please note the year on the spoon 1764! many sources attribute the control mark on the spoon to Fredrik, which is incorrect. It is Christopher's punch! He used it after his sons death. That causes confusing. This has been discussed earlier in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=46937&p=139555&hilit=Fredrik+Fabritius#p139555
..it is undoubtedly a bit complicated....and unclear too...

Re: Unknown markings on 1764 serving spoon

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:58 pm
by Hose_dk
carnt find master. Mark unknown. Or not :)

But i have a guessJonas Henrich Jonassen born 1722 approx
Working by his father He show his work 23/3 1750 and get citizenship same day.
Dead 1791

The mark is H over 50

Re: Unknown markings on 1764 serving spoon

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:17 pm
by Hose_dk
no not a guess - Its him.
The 50 refers to 1750. The master should make a new stamp every year including year of manufacture.
They did not follow this to the letter. This is a good example, he has made the spoon and find a stamp suited. Giving no attention to year.

Re: Unknown markings on 1764 serving spoon

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:21 pm
by Hose_dk
Finn01 wrote:I've inherited this large spoon (roughly 30 cm long). The story goes that a Norwegian king gave this spoon to one of his lovers the moment she got pregnant and had to leave the kingdom to bear her bastard child.


The story :-) :-)

Regarding the size. Large spoons a not unusual I have norwegian and danish some 45 cm long.
Norway - now its Denmark. Norway was part of Denmark at that time.
But its Copenhagen Denmark.

Re: Unknown markings on 1764 serving spoon

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:08 am
by Finn01
Dear all,
Thank you so very much for all this information! My family will be very excited to hear where the spoon comes from.

One question left: you state that Christopher Fabritius is the guardian, what does that mean?

Re: Unknown markings on 1764 serving spoon

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:48 am
by Qrt.S
He is the public servant usually working in the mint office. He checks and guarantees the legal fineness used in a gold or silver object. In other words he punches the official control mark.

Re: Unknown markings on 1764 serving spoon

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:14 am
by dognose

Re: Unknown markings on 1764 serving spoon

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:30 am
by WarrenKundis
Thank you for sharing with us Finn. If you could leave the images posted would be of great assistance to the next person. If you wouldn't mind rotating the marks image would make it easier to read them.

Warren