Large Spoon - Unknown origins

Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Finland
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SteveDWollongong
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Large Spoon - Unknown origins

Postby SteveDWollongong » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:52 pm

Good day/evening to all,

I just purchased this basting? spoon because the markings are a total mystery to me. If this turns out to be Scandinavian it will be a a complete fluke but I had to start somewhere.

So before we get to the photos, let me just say that the spoon in 400mm or 16 inches long. I have paced a standard Geo III English Berry spoon next to it for reference.

Apart from the two stamps, (I'll assume one to be place, the other makers mark initials) there is an inscription on the back. It reads; "Peter Moller in Rentz 1825". Please note that there are also the letters "R J" inscribed in the same dot technique and font on the underside of the handle. I therefore think that the person RJ made the attribution of Peter Moller and felt certain enough to have it inscribed.

I have dismissed Peter Andrea Moller of St Petersburg as to my knowledge the marks aren't Russian. As for Rentz, the only place of this name I could find is a tiny town in Georgia US so it seems highly unlikely.

Any assistance in identifying the marks and known use of such a large spoon will be greatly appreciated.

Steve

Front
Image

Rear
Image

Place:
Image

Maker
Image

Engraving:
Image


Inscription: Peter Moller in Rentz 1825
Image

R ingo
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Re: Large Spoon - Unknown origins

Postby R ingo » Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:25 am

Hello Steve,

the spoon was made in Tondern / Tønder in Northern Schleswig (southern Denmark) by Paul Hansen I (1753-1830). Rentz (danish Rens) is a small village near Tondern and belongs today to Burkal Sogn ( https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burkal_Sogn ).

Best regards,
Ringo

AG2012
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Re: Large Spoon - Unknown origins

Postby AG2012 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:38 am

The only similar mark in Rosenberg registry (a boat with three masts) is town mark of Helsimgor, Denmark, # 5579. The name is engraved in German ( Ö ) and there was no place Rentz even in Former German territories (Ehemalige deutsche Gebiete).

R ingo
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Re: Large Spoon - Unknown origins

Postby R ingo » Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:50 am

Hello Steve,

here is the mark of Paul Hansen. The ship is the city mark of the city Tondern / Tønder :
Image

In northern Schleswig has lived e lot German people in this time. I think, the "Ö" was common in this region.

Here is the link to your Peter Möller from Rentz ( http://www.danishfamilysearch.com/kbid169259 )

kind regards,
Ringo

AG2012
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Re: Large Spoon - Unknown origins

Postby AG2012 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:14 am

Excellent,R ingo
Rosenberg has these, but they differ (one mast).Bellow is for Helsingor, which misled me.
Btw.I am more familiar with German settlers in the east. Regards
Image

SteveDWollongong
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Re: Large Spoon - Unknown origins

Postby SteveDWollongong » Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:32 am

Thankyou Ringo and AG2012.

As I said, I bought this because I didn't recognise the marks but everything I could see in the online photos indicated it was silver and not plated. (The seller advertised it as silver plated). My first instinct was that it was Danish and about 1810. I didn't know of the inscription with the 1825 date until after the spoon was delivered.

Stylistically do you think the spoon was made new in 1825 or do think it may be slightly earlier? Also, as there are no markings of silver fineness, what would be the likely silver content at the time...13 loth, 13 1/4 or 13 1/2 Lødigt or something different?

Thankyou,
Steve

AG2012
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Re: Large Spoon - Unknown origins

Postby AG2012 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:11 am

I suppose the mark of Paul Hansen and town mark posted by R ingo are assigned to a particular period, i.e. earlier than engraved date.
People liked to engrave their old silver, but that`s an assumption in this case. I would expect a female name,though. Peter was not serving vegetables or whatever in 1825.In a word, I think it`s older than 1825.As for loth purity I am not familiar with possible exceptions in that part of Denmark at the time.
I never bought anything without ``13`` or ``12`` to check it afterwards whether silver or not, so I am not to judge.
Regards

R ingo
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Re: Large Spoon - Unknown origins

Postby R ingo » Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:34 pm

Hello Steve,

I see no reason, that the spoon is older than the doted inscription. This type of handle appears in northern Germany to my experience very short before 1800 and was common up to about 1840 (in Denmark came later a renaissance of this style also plated about 1900 (?) and later).

I have often seen such big danish spoons of the 19th century. I think this kind of spoon is a gift to a marriage and Peter Möller is the donor.

Concerning the fineness I have the experience, that in Schleswig it is in the 19th century lower than 75 % (12 Lot). Seldom there are descriptions about the silver fineness on the object. I only know “11” (68,5 %).

I guess the forum member Hose_dk can give more and better informations.


Kind regards,
Ringo


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