Danish Spoon? Any ideas?

[jaeter]

This was sold to me as Danish, but I cannot seem to find the marks and therefore the date (although I suspect 1899 is relatively close), nor the composition (.830, .836, .925). Anyone know these?




Thanks!

[Hose_dk]

Its from Norway. The city of Drammen - its South of Oslo (Christiania). From 1830
PRÖVE=test
Maker I dont have my book now.

Prick engraving "Memmory of April 7th 1830"

[Qrt.S]

Yes it is from Drammen in southern Norway as Hose already mentioned. The maker is Andreas Schieraad Brandt 1820-1863. The word PRÖVE is actually the fineness mark guaranteeing a silver fineness of not less than 13¼ Loth i.e. 828,10/1000. Fineness in promille appears not earlier than in the 1880-90. Before that the fineness was expressed in lots or in Russia in Zolotnik.

[dognose]

Hi Hose and Qrt.S,

Is the PRÖVE mark in anyway official, or is it just a statement by the silversmith, guaranteeing the standard, the same way that early American 'smiths stuck their work with 'DOLLAR' or 'COIN'?

Trev.

[Tosten]

It was not official, it was only a statement from the siversmith that it was proved (tested).It was only used in Drammen (Buskerud) and in Vestfold Tonsberg, Sandefjord).
Nobody knows why it started.

[dognose]

Hi Tosten,

Thank you very much for the information.

Trev.

[Qrt.S]

Nobody?
The marks PRÖVE, PRØVE or PS are actually Danish marks implemented in the late 18th century. At that time Norway was a part of Denmark (in union). In the middle of the 18th century it appeared that the goldsmiths used mainly below-standard silver. The minimum legal standard at that time was 13½ lot (since 1608) but most of the made silver objects' fineness was only 12L or even less. The big bang happened in 1762 when the guardein in Christiania (Oslo) himself was caught using below standard silver. Also many goldsmiths were caught in using "poor silver". All were punished and fined. Something had to be done but the authorities were unable to do anything.

For obvious reasons the people had lost confidence in silver objects. The situation was a mess. Goldsmiths of the Chrstianialaug (Christiania guild) in Bragernes and Stromso¸ (later the town Drammen) with surroundings located on the western side of the "Oslo fjord started to use a fineness mark "CL" (Christiania Lauget) in order to guarantee legal fineness and did not use the ordinary series of marks master, town, guardian and fineness. All in order to retrieve the people's confidence. About the same time alongside with the CL-mark these PRÖVE, PRØVE or PS marks were implemented in the same region and also in villages around Skienfjord. These marks guaranteed a minimum fineness of 13¼ lot. It was not until the year 1820 when the minimum was stabilized to be 13¼ lot allover the country. However, a lower fineness could be used but the fineness had to be punched on the object. In 1814.
FYI, Norway became a part of Sweden (to 1905).

In Copenhagen the goldsmiths as well started to use a similar mark; "Pröve" and "KHvn" i.e. "Københamns prøvesølv" meaning Copenhagen's tested silver.

As Torsten already mentioned the marks PRÖVE, PRØVE, PS, Pröve or KHvn are not official marks because they are punched by the maker himself and not the guardian for reasons told above. The marks were abolished shortly before 1850.

Long review with many words and history but this was how it happened.

[Qrt.S]

A minor clarification: Drammen is not "Buskerud". It is in Buskerud. That is the county what I called "surroundings". Drammen is the new name of two conjoined towns; Bragernes and Strømsø in 1811. Vestfold is the neighbor county where the towns - Tønsberg and Sandefjord are located.

[dognose]

That's brilliant Qrt.S, it's great information.

Many thanks.

Trev.

[jaeter]

Fantastic information! Thank you very much for taking the time to detail it. Admin edit read forum rules.