Maker's Mark IF or IR? Opaline Sugar Bowl with spoons

[JBP]

According to a letter from 1946 written by an elderly gentleman this item was given as a wedding gift in 1894 by a landowner (godsejer) named 'Møller' reciding at 'Katrupgaard' in Denmark.

Anyway, on the backside of the handle the maker's mark 'IF' or 'IP' has been stamped two (2) times?!? In between them there is a rather dim marking, perhaps the three towers for Copenhagen?

On the silver rim facing up there are some very tiny markings not even half a millimeter in height - at first thought to be some kind of imperfection - but enlarged by macro photography the letter 'N' seems to stand out - or is it just my imagination?

I believe the style to be late empire with genuine French opaline glass.

I would be very happy if someone could explain to me who the maker was and when/where he lived?

Two false theories...
IR: A theory has been brought to me that it is Jochum Ernst Reeberg from Nestved, born approx. 1743-1779! but googling his name a picture of a spoon surfaces, but the 'R' doesn't really look like the last letter on my piece.
IF: refers to a company in Copenhagen but it started in the 1980ies, so this doesn't ring true either, because the object was already mentioned in a letter from 1946!

Pictures:







Looking forward to hearing from you :-)

[Hose_dk]

Could also be the 3 towers of Randers.
I would go for Johan Andreas Robsham born approx 17790 master 10/8 18012 dead 1853.

This is a late empire item.

[JBP]

Very interesting!

It seems more than one maker has had IR as his stamp.

I do not believe it's IR, though. If you zoom the photo (CTRL + roll of mousewheel) 'IF' seems rather clear. Also the R of JA Robsham has a more rounded top and a curled leg, than my mark, which I would describe as more gothic/triangular carved.

I guess, I will have to add another picture, once I have polished the item, to make identifikation easier.

But thanks for your input.

[JBP]

Adding two NEW PHOTOS.

Having polished the item, it seems that the center mark also is 'IF', but why would someone place his stamp three times?

On only one of the spoons there are two strange marks. It is only a weak difference in level so if they were marks they are today nothing but silhouettes - looking a bit like a bird over a human head ;-)

[Hose_dk]

I can read that you have access to the hallmarks in a book.
I the same book you can read that 4 marks was standard. 1 maker 2. city 3. taxmark 4 guardein.
Mark 2,3,4 set by guardein. I may cityes no guardein - so what should a maker do? He set 2 or 3 or 4 of makers mark. In my collection I have spoons with 4 times the same makers mark.
Some makers had 2 different marks - and used both.

I find no IF in my book.

[JBP]

Sorry Hose, I do not have a book, so I am not sure what you are refering to?

I am very glad for your information. It is new to me, that four marks were standard, but it makes sense :-)

According to your information, logically 'IF' must have worked outside Copenhagen or in fact any other city without a guardein attached.

I have been doing some research for 'Kattrupgaard'.
It is very likely that is is 'Kattrup Gods' situated in the Northern region of Zealand, Denmark. A farm named 'Kattrup gaard' has developed into 'Kattrup Gods'. Over time the village Kattrup has disappeared and on several occasions the landowner has been a 'Møller'/Miller/Müller.


Still having no clue as to who IF was...

[Hose_dk]

The book is Bøje he has collected Danish silvermarks.
I have not followed your info on provinience - just looked for marks.

The Møller is owner 1793-1800 http://www.roskildehistorie.dk/gods/ade ... attrup.htm

The story (of a gift) could very well be correct. Here is a similar given to an employed when he left an estate. http://www.antikbrevkassen.dk/stort.asp?selbinr=11149

the Møller family 1951 onwards is a different family (I would guess) They are the Maersk Line family and they are most likely not related to the 1800 Møller.
Møller is a common name.

I once started this regarding citymarks - marks have disappered. viewtopic.php?f=38&t=13564&p=30178&hilit=danish+silver+marks#p30178

[JBP]

It seems, I was wrong about the location!

The letter of 1946 does not mention 'Kattrupgaard'. It is as a matter of fact ØSTRUPGAARD, today known as ØSTRUPLUND on Funen, Denmark. The landowner was (1870-1895) an Elias Jørgensen Møller. Having found the correct location, I believe it is most likely, that the maker 'IF' is to be found among makers in the Northeastern region of Funen.

[Hose_dk]

http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98strupg%C3%A5rd

Østrupgård can be a different number of locations. Here you have 4 different.

When I wrote before I had written that I would say 1810 to 1840/1850 as age. The Møller/Kattrupgård made me delete the years as it could not be later than 1800. Now that we mooved to another location I would introduce the late empire.