Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
madej
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Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by madej »

Hi.
Salt cellars marked MC and the Kokoshnik mark from 1908-1926 Moscow. Can you say more about the manufacturer?
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madej
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Re: Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by madej »

Hi.
No information?
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dognose
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Re: Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by dognose »

Four hours later...........and your patience is exhausted!

Why so demanding?

Trev.
madej
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Re: Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by madej »

Hi Trev
I'm a bit impatient, but of course I'll wait as long as it takes for an answer.
However, I hope not too long ;)
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Dad
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Re: Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by Dad »

I think, it's workshop of Maria Semyonova.
Original good items.
Qrt.S
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Re: Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by Qrt.S »

OK here is the answer:
Yes, the mark Cyrillic MC is Maria Sokolova, but she is not the maker irrespective of the punch. She is the daughter of her deceased father. In imperial Russia widows and daughters could apply from the assay office for the right to punch with their own punches after the death of husband or father. The maker is some worker (or apprentice?) in the workshop. Daughter Maria Sokolova run her father's workshop and as said maintained the right to punch, but she has not made anything because she was not a goldsmith only the "boss". There were no female goldsmiths in Russia on those days. Women were supposed to be home and raise the children and manage the home!!!
Qrt.S
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Re: Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by Qrt.S »

Sorry Maria Semyonova of course, my fault.
madej
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Re: Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by madej »

Well thank you. So is this just so much information? So we assume that it is silver from Semonova's workshop and not Sokolova's? In the network I found almost identical salt shakers signed as Sokolova, that's why I suggested it. Do we have Semenova's marks on another object for comparison?
Dad
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Re: Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by Dad »

The silver and copper workshop of M Sokolova produced mainly religious items from media, later from silver. Silver household items are almost never found. The annual turnover is not big.
Unlike the factory of Maria Semenova, who inherited from her father (Vasily Semenov) a large-scale production of expensive household silver. But, if Vasily Semenov became famous for his niello silver items, then his daughter paid a lot of attention to art polychrom cloisonne enamel on silver.
madej
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Re: Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by madej »

Thank you.
Was the workshop successful or was it one of the many?
Silverstone
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Re: Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by Silverstone »

Hi madej,

here are some more informations about Maria Semeonova - source: Pushkin Antiques, London.

Maria Semeonova (1896-1917)

In 1896 Maria inherited the company founded by his father Vasilij Semionovich Semionov in 1852 and she was entitled
to enter her own mark, ‘MS’ in Cyrillic.
Under Maria’s direction and thanks to a skilled team of craftsmen the company flourished, by 1905 it counted 100 employees.
Her workshop was well-known for the outstanding quality of its enamelled artworks, mostly in the traditional Russian style,
although Art Nouveau influences are evident in later pieces.
It produced mainly small enamelled objects, especially spoons and kovshs, typically in violet, green and white tones
and often decorated with round turquoise pearls.
Although she never held the Imperial warrant, Semeonova’s workshop supplied important firms in Moscow and St. Petersburg such as Fabergé.

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Silverstone
madej
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Re: Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by madej »

Hi Silverstone.
Thanks for the answer.
I've read it before, but I would like to know where this information comes from?
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Silverstone
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Re: Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by Silverstone »

Dear madej,
please read my text from A to Z.

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Silverstone
madej
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Re: Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by madej »

Dear Silvertone
Yes, I understand.
You cited the source of Pushkin Antiques, and I would like to know where they got this information from.
Silverstone
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Re: Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by Silverstone »

Hi madej,

Alexander Pushkin told me this evening:
„We wrote this text a long time ago, I‘m afraid, we don‘t know the source anymore.“

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Silverstone
madej
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Re: Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by madej »

Hi. Silverstone
Thanks.
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Mart
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Re: Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by Mart »

«…Under Maria’s direction and thanks to a skilled team of craftsmen the company flourished, by 1905 it counted 100 employees….»
Indeed, such a number (100) is given in 1905, but only in 1905. Both before 1905 and after, the number of employees is usually 25-35. In 1916, only 8.
«…In imperial Russia windows and daughters could apply from the assay office for the right to punch with their own punches after the death of husband or father….»
Until about the middle of the 19th century, the workshop could only be opened by someone who was a silversmith himself. Then almost any person with a rare exception.
madej
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Re: Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by madej »

Hi Mart.
Thank you for your answer.
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GiulyF
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Re: Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by GiulyF »

Qrt.S wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 1:19 pm OK here is the answer:
Yes, the mark Cyrillic MC is Maria Sokolova, but she is not the maker irrespective of the punch. She is the daughter of her deceased father. In imperial Russia widows and daughters could apply from the assay office for the right to punch with their own punches after the death of husband or father. The maker is some worker (or apprentice?) in the workshop. Daughter Maria Sokolova run her father's workshop and as said maintained the right to punch, but she has not made anything because she was not a goldsmith only the "boss". There were no female goldsmiths in Russia on those days. Women were supposed to be home and raise the children and manage the home!!!
Dear Qrt.S I'm picking up this old topic because I would like to know more about the role of women in the laboratory in imperial Russia at the end of the 19th century, so we have to consider that Maria Semenova only marked for objects produced by her collaborators? she therefore provided the place, the laboratory, the material to produce, the loyal clientele (since the maison was known as Maria Semenova and still today, so much so that I, but I think most people, think it was her the creator of each object), paid taxes and everything, but in the end wasn't she who produced?

I look forward for your reply!
Qrt.S
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Re: Maria Sokolova - salt cellar

Post by Qrt.S »

Oh dear! This topic regarding women as appointed goldsmiths in Russia has been discussed here before. Please use the search function!
Anyway, neither Maria Sokolova nor Semenova produced anything (as assumed). They only led the factory after their father had died. Briefly, there was not a singe graduated goldsmith woman in former Russia. It was an impossible mission for a women to graduate and become a goldsmith in those days. There is not a single document in any guild in Russia found/known showing an approved graduated female goldsmith. This is a fact! The women's task was to take care of the household, the home and rise the children.

BUT! When a goldsmith (male) passed away. His wife/widow or daughter usually inherited the workshop. According to the Russian law they had the right to continue with the business to their own death. They also got the right to use a punch (with their own initials). All in all, the workers in the workshop/factory made the objects and marked them with a punch with the mentioned female initials. Therefore it looks like a woman would have made objects. The workshop was not a place for women, hard work, harsh language and "dirty" environment.
Due to what I wrote above IT MIGHT LOOK LIKE THERE WERE FEMALE GOLDSMITHS IN FORMER RUSSIA, BUT THAT IS NOT THE CASE! I know that there are differing opinions, but no evidence has been showed that would support this claim! It has been claimed that e.g. Alma Phil would have been a goldsmith because of her lovely jewelry, but she was a designer of those. She didn't make them! It has also been mentioned that Hester Bates was a female goldsmith, which is a fact! BUT, she was in England not in Russia. What happened in England is totally an other case.
If somebody disagree or is able to prove otherwise, please show the original documentation! If that happens I will immediately withdraw the above written.
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