Icona, Christ Pantocrator

[amena]

Hello everyone
I know that Russian silver is a very complicated matter and therefore I usually avoid buying it, but I always read the posts to learn something.
Today I saw on the internet this icon that the seller claims to be Russian from 1778, with 72 zolotnik fineness.

These are the hallmarks struck on the riza twice, ad abundantiam.

I do not have the knowledge to dispute these claims, but at skin this item seems to me to be phony as a six euro bill. Am I wrong?
I would be happy to have some opinion from experts in the matter.
Thanks for attention
Amena

[oel]

Hi Amena,
Although I am not an expert I say you are right a phony.


Best,


Peter

[AG2012]

Hi Amena,
Yes, it is Euro 6 bill.
I think they deliberately used very low standard in case somebody does acid test and gets poor response (``You cannot expect blood red because it`s only 750).
Besides, overall aspect of both marks and the icon scream: ``I was made the day before yesterday``

Take care

[Qrt.S]

Yes it is a fake but not only for the 72 zolotnik fineness mark. This value was the common silver fineness before 1798 when it was raised to not less than 84 zolotniki. Still valid today. Below the year 1778 in the hallmark should be the assayers initials in Kiev. They are I·C for Ivan Serebrenikov 1778-1781 but there seems to be fragments of some other letters. The maker's mark shows a Latin G..??? . Luckily you didn't buy it amena.

[amena]

Thank you all for your opinion.
Finally, the item was sold, and not for 6 euros but for an exorbitant sum, in my opinion.
I am sorry for the bidder 8993 who takes home a junk, but he can return it if he asks for the opinion of an expert, or he will live peacefully in blissful ignorance.
What shocks me instead is the ignorance or bad faith of the auction house "experts" who endorse these fakes.
Don't you think we must do something to prevent these things?
Best regards
Amena

[Dad]

... Below the year 1778 in the hallmark should be the assayers initials in Kiev. They are I·C for Ivan Serebrenikov 1778-1781 but there seems to be fragments of some other letters. ...

Good evening, Qrt.S. Explain, please, where did you get the facts about Ivan Serebrennikov in Kiev in 1778?
It is a very strange statement.

[Qrt.S]

Good morning Dad, thanks for asking.
The information is found in green Ivanov on page 41. It states Kiev, Ivan Serebrenikov. It matches with Postnikova #570, IC 1778, unknown assayer. I have put a question mark regarding the working period because it seems to that he was in Vologda at the same time 1781-87. An other source claims that IC would be Ivan Saveliev 1778-1781 in Kiev but this source is partly "unreliable" therefore I picked Serebrenikov, A third source claims that Saveliev was in Moscow 1772-1778, so what is the truth, kindly tell me. You have access to better sources than I have, so...???? Thank you in advance.

[Dad]

Good evening, Qrt.S.
In real, these stamps are an unsuccessful attempt to tie this icon to Kiev in 1778. However, the fraudsters relied on false data from the book of P.-L. Further, we can say that the first assay tent in Kiev began to operate only in 1827. But all the products before this year that are mistakenly attributed to Kiev, because of the town mark with the Archangel Michael, must be considered products of Arkhangelsk. And the assay master I.S. this is Ivan Senatov. And in Kiev, until 1827, the Polish system (lothes) of punches silver was used.

[Qrt.S]

Thank you Dad very valuable information. However, I don't quite catch you. Do you mean that Senatov actually assayed in Arkhangelsk in 1778 and that the first assay office in Kiev was established not earlier than in 1827? In this case is the unknown assayer ВФ mentioned in PL #580 also misplaced and should be moved to Arkhangelsk? If you know his name etc. I would appreciate if you tell it, thank you i advance.

Further, we can say that the first assay tent in Kiev began to operate only in 1827

[Dad]

Yes. This is true. Everything that is written about Kiev during this period in the book of P.-L. must be transferred to Arkhangelsk. Assay master В.Ф. (V.F.) has the surname Frolov. The name is possibly Vasily. In addition to my sources, you can see the dissertation of V.L. Zhuravleva (chief curator of ФГБУК ГМВЦ "РОСИЗО" (Moscow). "Серебряное дело городов русского севера"("SILVER BUSINESS OF RUSSIAN NORTH CITIES XV11-XIX CENTURIES" (complex analysis of written and material sources) Abstract: http://cheloveknauka.com/serebryanoe-de ... stochnikov

[Qrt.S]

@Dad
Thank you very much. Unfortunately my Russian language skill is not enough to read the extensive dissertation. If you could point out what is the most important chapter in this matter it would be of help.

[Dad]

Link to the author's abstract. The content of the dissertation is summarized here in an editable format. Translate the data for 4 cities in Google: Vologda, Arkhangelsk, V. Ustyug and Vyatka. That's not a lot.