Basket ID

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
madej
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:46 pm

Basket ID

Postby madej » Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:39 pm

Hello.
What do you think about this basket?
Regards

ImageImageImageImage
Image
ImageURL=https://images90.fotosik.pl/454/e7cc603b6bb9f255.jpg]Image[/URL]ImageImageImageImage

AG2012
contributor
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Basket ID

Postby AG2012 » Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:39 am

Hi,
Machine made mass produced die stamped and rolled silver with 18th century Ewald Bedewart mark and Tremolierstich.
Possibly the only genuine mark deliberately erased.
Everything is wrong here; forget it.
Regards

madej
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:46 pm

Re: Basket ID

Postby madej » Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:08 am

Hi.
The basket is not for sale.
It is located in the village, in the presbytery of the church. The old priest now lives by the church, but he was a priest there since the 1950s and says that before he came to this church, this basket was already there.
Regards

Juke*
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:55 am

Re: Basket ID

Postby Juke* » Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:07 pm

Hi!

I believe the basket to from the beginning of the 19th century from St.Petersburg and the assayer master to be Aleksandr Ilich Jashinov/Jaschenkov (ая, 1795-1826). The makers mark BB is unknown.

The die stamped rim is typical for the period. The style of the basket is empire.

Regards,
Juke

madej
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:46 pm

Re: Basket ID

Postby madej » Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:44 pm

Hi Juke*
I had this basket in my hand and I believe it is original. I am thinking of the marks on the silver and the lack of them on the handle.
Regards

Juke*
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:55 am

Re: Basket ID

Postby Juke* » Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:20 pm

Hi!

It is normal and common that if the marking is missing from the handle as during those times the marking was not as strict as later on the 19th century.

Regards,
Juke

Qrt.S
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Posts: 3317
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Basket ID

Postby Qrt.S » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:31 am

In my eyes there is some "oddities" here. The bread basket looks like it is machine made and not handmade. Before mid 19th century everything was more or less handmade. Please note that according to the marks the basket is made around the turn of 18th and 19th century. The seam in the foot is badly soldered i.e sloppy work etc., etc.... What goldsmith would do such a lousy job? Another thing is the zick-zack test mark. It is not very common on a Russian made object. The basket's quality is not very high. A difficult case I would say...
Btw, the assayer Aleksandr Jachinov/Jaschenko...whatever his name was, was a "duboius" person.

Juke*
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:55 am

Re: Basket ID

Postby Juke* » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:36 am

To my mind there are indications of more hand made qualities which I think are according to the time period. For example if you look closely to the holes of the sides you notice they all are a little different in shape and size. Also the soldering work is clearly hand made with minor faults.

The 'sloppy' work indicates to me that the silversmith had only mediocre capabilities and also to my experience the quality of the work from those times was typically not as high as later in the 19th century when the knowledge of silver work, better training and more industrial capabilities made the works more accurate and 'modern'.

AG2012
contributor
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Basket ID

Postby AG2012 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:59 pm

Contradicting facts; machine die stamped silver in very early 19th century, and at the same time obviously poor craftsmanship.
Stamping steel tools are very expensive and profitable only if applied in mass production.
Again, Tremolierstich is done deliberately over one mark in order to make it illegible.
Only imagination and wishful thinking can put those controversial facts together. (Like recovery from Napoleonic wars).
If that is a Petersburg Empire piece, let it be.
Regards

Juke*
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:55 am

Re: Basket ID

Postby Juke* » Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:19 pm

Hi!

As mentioned the die stamping was a very typical way of decoration of silver objects during the empire period. Here an example by Aleksandr Panfilov, Moscow, 1826.

Image

This is my opinion that the basket is authentic but we can have different opinions.

Regards,
Juke

madej
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:46 pm

Re: Basket ID

Postby madej » Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:45 pm

Gentlemen, you can have reservations about the quality of the basket, but the fact that it is not a fake is unquestionable. The origin of the basket is certain. For several dozen years or even longer, the basket has been in the same place. There are no silver marks of a well-known goldsmith on the basket, to be doubtful that it is a fake made for profit
Regards

Aguest
contributor
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 am

Re: Basket ID

Postby Aguest » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:36 pm

X-Ray the base and X-Ray the basket to determine silver percentages. ::: Base was made in Russia and the basket weaving and handle on top of the base was made in Germany :::: Could it be a combination of authentic original silver parts combined into one basket? ::: XRF is the only way to get any further reliable data :::


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