Who is the maker ЕФ:С ?

[Qrt.S]

Hi,
I face a problem with this Russian maker's mark ЕФ:С in St.Petersburg.

Different Sources give contradictory information.
It is either Yevstafy Silantiev 1810-1847 or Efim Sidorov 1833-1841 in St. Petersburg. I have seen a spoon dated 1847 with this mark and according to that I assumed the maker to be Silantiev, but? Could anybody verify which-one is correct or any other ideas?
Thank you in advance
Qrt.S

[dognose]

Hi Qrt.S,

I'm sure a larger image of the mark would be appreciated.

Trev.

[Qrt.S]

Sorry, but I got picture. It is in 72 dpi. only. I tried to enhance it but without success. I lager picture wouldn't help. The initials are ЕФ:С. The assayer is ДТ and of less importance. The assaying year is 1839.

[AG2012]

Hi,
On Russian forums ЕФС is attributed exclusively to Евстафий Силантьев.
(An example given bellow).
Besides, middle name is Ф and Фисарев (Fisarev) is mentioned as land owner in connection with the family of this silversmith, who joined StPetersburg guild in 1810. (Ivanov p.114 with lapsus calami for born 1875 instead of 1775).
Have a nice weekend.
Regards

[Qrt.S]

Thank you AG2012.
Yes I read Ivanov. However, take a look at P#1280 it says Efim Sidorov 1833-1841 and that made me wonder. The year on your basket is 1845 and on "my" spoon 1847, so the mark must be Silantev's. Postnikova must be wrong.

[AG2012]

Possible mistake in PL and the controversy have been discussed on Russian forum:
(marks on a spoon)

The statement:
Arguments, please! Efimiy Sidorov at P-Loseva I know, I know how much you love her! She indicates the years of work in 1833-1841 .. And the assayer Dmitry Ilyich died in 1844 .. Explain to me the gap of 3 years, please ..

Аргументы, пожалуйста! Ефимий Сидоров у П-Лосевой Знаю, знаю, как Вы её любите! 1833-1841 годы работы она указывает.. А пробирёр Дмитрий Ильич шлёпнул в 1844.. Разъясните мне люфт в 3 года, плиз..

The answer:
Formally, of course, you are right ... The years do not match ...

Формально, безусловно, Вы правы... Годы не сходятся

Interestingly, they seem to fully agree assayer DT died in 1844, not 1850 as claimed by PL.

Researching Russian market I noticed that ЕФ:С is often attributed to Ефимий Сидоров but it seems they simply followed PL , so the mistake is repeated (as you have already mentioned in regard of several literature references).
On the other hand, PL was probably wrong with the years, and the mark itself is correctly attributed.
The controversy remains.
Regards

[Qrt.S]

Now it gets interesting. Tverskoi assayed in St.P 1837-1851. Where from is the information that he died 1844? You see I happen to have soot marks of Tverskoi from 1837 to 1850. Ivanov claims the assaying years. An explanation would be appreciated.

[Qrt.S]

I happen to notice that on your picture's assaying mark is clearly seen ДТ and the year 1845,....but according to some source he died 1944 ????

[Qrt.S]

Sorry, 1844 of course. Lapsus scribae

[AG2012]

No reference in regard of the assayer: just quoted the discussion between two prominent Russian members of Antique Forum.
Not even sure of the meaning of шлёпнул в 1844

[Qrt.S]

Hi again AG2012

To my understanding the writer is asking for an explanation to why there is a 3 years gap (1841-1844) because it is known that Dimitry Tverskoy punched his mark in 1844 (and longer to 1851). This makes sense because as I already noticed, your picture above carries the year 1945 with Tverskoy's initials and the maker's mark ЕФ:С. Therefore the maker cannot be Sidorov because he didn't mark/punch anything after 1841 but Silantiev did to 1847.
Case solved, the mark ЕФ:С belongs to Yevstafy Silantiev 1810-1847

The word шлёпнул means according to different dictionaries; slap, hit, execute even kill... but in this context "punch". The year 1844 has nothing to do with the death of Tverskoy. The writer only states that Tverskoy assayed (= punched in 1844). It is "spoken language" i.e. bad choice of word.

Conclusion: The beloved Marina Postnikov has made a mistake and that it!

Thank you for an interesting debate in this lousy Sunday weather. It is raining sleet...