Russian 84 silver spoons: fake or not

[forksnspoons]

I've been collecting Russian spoons for a while and here's my collection:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zEJnpK2zwWnnnkb37

Since my friends know of my hobby I got a present at different times and I'm not sure about these 2 sets of spoons that I received:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/PZ49C9buZR2M23Xv8

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )

I would have never bought those as they are 1) look too good for their age 2) they are just too different from the usual spoons that I usually get

[dognose]

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

Please embed your images and the limit is one item per topic.

See: Posting Requirements

Trev.

[AG2012]

Hi,
If you mean three spoons in the second link - images are too small.
Please post close up image of the mark and the spoon.
Regards

[forksnspoons]

Here are the close ups:

[Goldstein]

Hi forksnspoons -

nice collection - unfortunately 5 total fakes!
Authentic spoons of this pattern are marked always on the stem side - not on the stem back!!! Some models in the bowl.

[forksnspoons]

Thank you!

These 2 sets I put originally in the post - they just didn't seem authentic. On top of that, the hallmarks of the makers were not stamped with a stamp, but rather just 2 letters imprinted.

[forksnspoons]

How about this spoon:



It also has the hallmark on the back

[Goldstein]

No rule without exception! The larger spoons are sometimes (very rarely) also on the back of the stems marked - often found in "better known" manufacturers. However, caution is required. Your pictured spoon seems to me absolutely real. Since these spoons are made today with state-of-the-art machines, recognizing forgeries is not always easy for the layman.
Experience and knowledge is the key to success!

Here is a larger spoon from the famous maker P. Kurlyukov, stamp on the back of the stem.

[forksnspoons]

Very interesting!

Thank you so much for your insights. I totally agree - time, more literature and verified collections reviews will help in the long run :)

[Goldstein]

Since nearly 1 year this spoon pattern flood the market. Beware!

[AG2012]

Hi,
Hand engraved floral motif with monogram in the spoon above is not profitable to fake even with very cheap labor available.
It can be done with robotic engraving equipment on large scale production, but hand engraving is easily recognized by imperfections created with uneven hand movement.
Regards

[Juke]

Hi!

There seems to be still a question mark on the authenticity as according to the mark it shows that the spoon to be assayed by Lev Oleks in 1892 but in previous debate there has been uncertainty if Lev Oleks worked as an assayer in 1892. Also especially this type of mark by Lev Oleks is very typically used by the fakers so I would remain cautious of the authenticity.

The spoon itself is most likely from this period and the engraving would be authentic as already mentioned.

Regards,
Juke

[Goldstein]

Hi -

just a reminder: Lev Oleks was in Moscow on duty: 1889-91, 1892-94, 1895-1904, 1915-1917. In Kiew on duty: 1905-1914

The spoon itself is most likely from this period and the engraving would be authentic as already mentioned.

You think fakers marked an authentic spoon with correct fake marks? 1892 is correct - see above.
Do you preview what you write?
I really do not understand what you want to say.

Regards
Goldstein

[Juke]

Hi!

The point was that in earlier threads in this forum (you can use the search function) the working period for Lev Oleks in Moscow was debated if he was an assayer during a couple years (ex. 1892) in Moscow according to which authenticity was then questioned. Later seems to have been agreed to be the years you mention so there are no gap years anymore. If the previous would have been the case the spoon could have been from the late 19th century period but not Russian. Anyway as there is no question for the gap years anymore I can agree to the result for authenticity.

Regards,
Juke

[Goldstein]

Hi -
another important indication is the style/form/craftsmanshift of the spoon - typical Russian! Nowhere in Europa you find similar spoons.
Fakers can make thanks to computerized milling machines, any number of identical spoons from an existing, authentic pattern spoon. The days when faker made fakes in their kitchen at home are long gone.
That's why experience and accurate knowledge are necessary to make the right decisions!

Regards
Goldstein

[forksnspoons]

Thank you guys for referring me to the assayer on the last spoon, very interesting to look into more information about him.

By the way, would you recommend any reading? I have a book by Postnikova/Loseva. Is there anything else you could advise to read/learn from?

[Goldstein]

Hi -
PL is a good base! Over the years some new informations showed up....mistakes were cleared.
Here a small selection of what you could need - depending on your interests.There are no limits!



In case of doubt always ask the forum - there is a lot of knowledge. Ask first - buy later!

Regards
Goldstein

[forksnspoons]

Thank you, so much! By any chance, do you have that image in a higher resolution?

[Goldstein]

Hi -

send me a PM - the forum allows only limited pixels!

Regards
Goldstein