Unknown marks on the Russian teapot.

[Dad]

Hi, all!
Please. I have some difficulty ....))

Somebody can explain? Why on the Russian teapot from St. Petersburg over original Russian marks have put other marks.
And also. What are these marks?

[AG2012]

Hi,
Over - struck marks, not double struck: contours are different.
Resembling French marks but they make no sense, particularly the number ``54``.
Fantasy marks ?
Regards

[oel]

Hi,
Could it be the Paris year letter P for 1784 misformed and or fake? See Image;


From Marc Rosenberg Ausland und Byzans; By Order of August 31, 1782, stopped the changing year letter, and instead the town continued the yearly P with the last two figures of the year. The year letter P was used till 1794 and perhaps till 1797
Best,

Peter

[Goldstein]

Hi Dad -

I have same style sugar- tea/coffee pots - were en vogue in the 1820 years in St. Petersburg.





Regards
Goldstein

[Dad]

Thanks

I think it is the counterfeit french marks too. A la from 18 century.

Second mark look like "Rene Pierre Ferrier".

Goldstein, you are right. Under the first mark a part of the Russian mark of 1830 is visible. (МК/1830)

[AG2012]

Very clear ‚‚54‚‚ which is impossible. (Ordonanz vom 31.August 1782. (Goldstein`s reference).
Wrong French marks.
Are there more marks ? It`s a teapot, there should be.
Sometimes I still doubt secondary marks (every part marked before soldered together) were always struck on Russian silver in early 19th century.

[oel]

You are right Dad fake French mark and maker's mark,



For comparison herewith an image of Rene Pierre Ferrier maker's mark


Peter.

[AG2012]

@ oel
Excuse me, Peter
You showed the page from Rosenberg.

[Dad]

AG2012,

Unfortunately or fortunately, I am not the owner of this teapot. ))

oel,

In this fake there is a commercial sense?? To spoil the Russian teapot, Imperial style?? ))

[AG2012]

@ Dad

To spoil the Russian teapot, Imperial style?? ))

It probably made sense at the time.
Remember an old lady selling silver, long, long time ago.
``This is new Moscow `` (1830).
``Whaaat? ``
`` Yes, rebuilt after Napoleon! `` :)

[oel]

Hi Dad,

Silver made by Rene Pierre Ferrier, active last quarter 18th century, fetch a good price today and in the past. I do not know when the fake French mark & maker's mark were added. Perhaps long before Russian silver peaked and Russian silver prices soared. The corrupting effect of greed leads to distruction. Yes, it is a shame.

Peter

[Dad]

Yes. You are right. Thanks for all contributors!