Russian silver hallmarks on icon

[ordersandmedals]

Hello to everybody! Here are some hallmarks that I suppose to be for silver and so far from my research, I concluded that is from Sankt-Petersburg from 1860-1865. Am I wrong, is there more I can know from there hallmarks? Thank you in advance! Nick.

[Qrt.S]

Unfortunately the marks are on only half visible. One thing is for sure. The town is not St Peterburg but Moscow. You can see St. George's head in the right mark. The double eagle mark to the left is more likely a part of a court supplier mark, but...? BC (Latin VS) is the assayer, and he could be Vladimir Smirnov, Viktor or Veniamin Savinsky, however, impossible to know which one from only a part of the mark.

Icons are very often faked and the way the hallmark is punched is dubious. In addition, there is no maker's mark visible. Have you investigated whether there are any other marks elsewhere on the object. Finally, I'm afraid I'm a bit suspicious....

[ordersandmedals]

Thank you very much for your response, I couldn't identify the third mark, now is obvious. Yes is true, the number of fakes is bigger than the original ones, so is a little risky these days to buy these things. However, I liked so much I couldn't keep myself from buying it. Is not arrived yet, when I get it I'll try to find other hallmarks. Is curios that I seen an almost same type, could it be the same manufacturer? The enameled part is 95% identical.
(admin edit)

[Qrt.S]

Sorry, but it is not a "little" risky to buy from eBay especially Russian objects without having the opportunity to investigate it having it in your hands. The risk is BIG! Most of the objects are fakes and unfortunately very good ones too. An often repeated slogan here: If you don't know what you are buying, don't! I would like to add another slogan: "Don't buy anything Russian made unless you have had it in your hands and investigated it carefully!"

Revert to the case when you have received it.

[AG2012]

Hi,
I agree with Qrt.S. It`s a modern fake. The same ``oklad`` in cloisonne is found on several icons offered online with different maker`s mark.
And obvious misuse of Imperial Eagle. Lacking the overall aesthetics of genuine icons. Engraving is done with the tip of high speed revolving instrument similar to dentist`s.
Regards

[ordersandmedals]

True, it is risky, I don't want the buy the one with St. Pantelymon is just for comparison. The one I bought seems to be okay due to the patina. Here are some pics.

[ordersandmedals]

Thank you Qrt.S and AG2012 for your opinion, seems that I bought a fake. At least is silver, or just silvered brass?

[AG2012]

Hi,
Patina is not a method of judgement.It can be created in less than 15 minutes.
Another point: hand painted and full image, not only hands and face.
Regards

[Qrt.S]

Sorry again, patina guarantees nothing. It is easily "constructed"! Would you show the marks for this second icon please.

Have you tried removed the riza/oklad and checked what is behind it? A whole painting or face and hands only? If there are face and hand painted but nothing else, you have reason to worry. The whole point with the riza is to protect the actual icon.

[Qrt.S]

:-))))) you made it first AG2012

[ordersandmedals]

The icon has not arrived yet, is on the way. Yes I am aware that the wood has to be painted full, I will check when arrives.

[Qrt.S]

That's not a hallmark but a maker's mark reading Khlebnikov......hmmmmmm! The riza should have similar hallmarks like on the first one. If they are missing, you most likely have a problem.

Is the riza silver or plated only is difficult to know from a picture only. What you could do is scratch somewhere on the edging and see if it shows yellow. Then it is electroplated brass but the base metal could as well be German silver (unlikely) but that makes it difficult to see.

[ordersandmedals]

One think I don't get it! If I would have the marks, why I would put just half of them on an item? Is just not logical (for me). Thanks again for your patience.

[amena]

It seems to me to see the color of copper, or is it an optical illusion ?

[Goldstein]

Hi ordersandmedals -

your "icon" is a total fake - beginning with the stereotype "cow eyes" of the saint, the untypical oklad (frame), the use of cold enamel (in contrary to heat treated enamel), the foolish, low quality engraving and ending with phantasy "illegible" marks of the Court jeweler Ovtschinnikov - who never made oklads. There's even a blind dog barking. (Sorry for that...)
If you payed with paypal you have a big chance to get your money back - speak with them!
Last advice: if you want to buy in the future something you do not understand - ask experts before - not after! This saves money and bad experiences!

Regards
Goldstein

[Qrt.S]

@Goldstein

"illegible" marks of the Court jeweler Ovtschinnikov

The name in the mark is Khlebnikov as I already mentioned´, not Ovtschinnikov.

[ordersandmedals]

Thank you to all of you for your advice, this is a bad experience (and pretty expensive one). I will try to send it back.

(admin edit - read "Posting Requirements)

[ordersandmedals]

It seems to me to see the color of copper, or is it an optical illusion ?

I supposed that around the hole is the rust from the nail, maybe I'm wrong, I will see when I'll get it.

[olga_kehl]

Wait a couple of minutes, I'll try to translate the text.

And I think it is not fake. Enamel is younger, than the rest of the icon.

The person that made the fake could not put half-cuted hallmarks. No, he could make them clear and big.