Antique spoons - part 2 - Authentic or not?

[SlightlyAtypical]

Hello!
Here is a small spoon I purchased in a thrift shop recently. Do these (hard to read) marks appear authentic ?
Is this a tea spoon or are they just general all-purpose spoons?

whole spoon about 5¼" (13.3cm) long


detail on back of bowl


marks on handle ... see фИ for Fyodor Ivanov (1843-1882) and an assay date of 187?


another closer pic of assay, standard and city


Thanks for looking and any insight that you can offer.
- K

[AG2012]

It`s typical and hand engraved. One cannot find hand engravers these days. In short, based on ``how it`s made`` I`d say it`s authentic.
Regards

[Qrt.S]

Here you have one "insight" ;-)))
The marks are so badly punched that it is like shooting in the dark almost with eyes closed. Anyway, it is always worth a try. What i believe I see is:
A nice genuine Russian silver spoon a bit too short to be a jam spoon but most likely a tea spoon for the podstakannik (tea glass holder).
Made in Moscow around 1830-50 and assayed by Assayer AK, that would be Andrey Kovalsky 1821-1856 the year on the spoon is 183? or 185?
The maker could be Ф.В or Ф.Г or Ф.?

Now we have a problem, because at that time there were several masters in Moscow using the mentioned letters in their marks. At least one of them unknown to name. Before any maker's names, let's wait and see what somebody else might come up with...

[Smokanabeach]

Hi All!

Question: I thought badly punched hallmarks could indicate it was à faire?

Regards

[Qrt.S]

I believe you mean a fake?
Not necessarily in this case. The hallmark is big and the stem thin. There is not enough space for the hallmark.

[Smokanabeach]

Hi Qrt.s! Still skiing? ;-))))

Yes I meaned 'fake'. Incredible they did not have smaller punched (when I see the size of a french swan..) because the result is not very aesthetically pleasing compared with the time silversmiths workshop spend in making this kind of item ''cute''

[AG2012]

could indicate it was à faire

I suppose you meant ``a fake``. Not in this particular case. You should see marking of gold and silver.The assistant holds the punch tool and the assayer strikes with the hammer. The assistant takes care of his fingers in the first place, the stem of the spoon is narrow and they have a heap of silver to mark. As I said, the spoon is typical Russian, hand engraved and the maker is not well known, so faking the marks would not be profitable. It would have been different issue had you asked: ‘Could it be Khlebnikov?``

[AG2012]

I should post replies faster. Mashed some tea and got back to see you already have the correct answer. Enjoy skiing and the spoon.

[Smokanabeach]

@ AG2012: ;-))) The most important is to understand why that can't be a fake! Anyway I'm surprise they did not have smaller punch tools for this kind of item! Again I don't understand the way they proceed: hallmarks are on the stem what is intelligent from an esthetical point of view but... Punch tools are to big... Ununderstandable for me...

[Dad]

I believe it 1874...1876.

Maker Fedor Ivanov , Moscow, 1843-1882(P.-L.).

[Qrt.S]

1870-> is rather late for the town mark, but...? 1830-50 fit the shape better, but again...?

[Qrt.S]

Just noticed that Ivanov's font is sans serif. The font on the stem is a serif font. I think it might be P#2946...or at least that is one option

[Dad]

1870-> is rather late for the town mark, but...? 1830-50 fit the shape better, but again...?

Like this:

[SlightlyAtypical]

Thank you all for weighing in ... and for an majority ruling for authentic. I could try to take better photos of the makers mark if you'd like ... but personally, I'm just happy that this spoon is 19th century ...

[AG2012]

Smokanabeach
from an esthetical point of view

They were merciless tax collectors (and nothing has changed in the meantime). ``Nothing is certain but death and taxes.`` (The only difference between death and taxes is that death doesn't get worse every time).

[Goldstein]

Hi-
I am with Dad. I "see" the assayer Konstantinov, Ivan 1874-1882 and the maker Ivanov, Fedor 1843-1882. Very often seen spoons from him on the market.

[Goldstein]

Hi-



...no serifs????