What to think about it?

[Smokanabeach]

Hi everybody!

Here is a russian (?) sterling silver basket.

Searching the history of these hallmarks, I found some tracks about them: hallmark on the left side of the basket looks to be polnish; on the right part, the mark at the bottom looks like russian hallmark from 1899-1908 (Postnikova p.258-259); the one above is for polnish sterling silver items coming from russian and that polnish government re hallmarked in 1920.

The key of the puzzle ssems to me to be the silversmith hallmark... It looks like Fabergé hallmark (1846-1920) (Postnikova p.183), but... not sure at all!

I need your opinion on it Experts! ;-)




(admin photo edit - images too large - link only - see Posting Requirements )

Thanks to all!

SMoka

[Qrt.S]

You will have my opinion but first look for more marks. I miss maker's mark, the actual Russian assaying mark with the assayer, fineness and year. Additional marks should be on the body. The marks you show are "sub marks" on the handle. It being a Faberge object is less than minimal. (my opinion) ;-)))

[Smokanabeach]

Thanks for answering Qrt.s! If you did not I won't how badly I cut m'y picture! ;-) Of course 3 other marks are missing and of course i'm not skilled enough to say it is Fabergé juste seeing the design of the basket!!! :-) I soon as my baby wake up, i will replace the wrong pic by the good one!

My apologies for that!

[Smokanabeach]

Here we are!

[dognose]

Hi Smoka,

That's the same image that you posted earlier.

Trev.

[Smokanabeach]

Hi Dognose, I was thinking the right side hallmarks did not appear on my previous post (may be because I was reading the reply of Qrt with my tablet). And beacause of a lack of skills in english, I was thinking Qrt. replies he saw only one hallmark, the one on the left side... Anyway... My friends, the problem is the hallmarks I show you are the only hallmarks appearing on that item... Of course I would have post others if they were existing! And may be I would have find the origin of this basket by myself! ... (I say "may be" ;-))))

[Smokanabeach]

And one more thing (or mistake to be precise):

"Searching the history of these hallmarks, I found some tracks about them: hallmark on the left side of the basket looks to be polnish; on the right part, the mark at the bottom looks like russian hallmark from 1899-1908 (Postnikova p.258-259); the one above is for polnish sterling silver items coming from russian and that polnish government re hallmarked in 1920."

It is more likely 1908-1926 thanks to the Postnikova. By the way I'm not sure we should find an assayer mark, a date mark,etc... on it! Should we?

[Smokanabeach]

You will have my opinion but first look for more marks. I miss maker's mark, the actual Russian assaying mark with the assayer, fineness and year. Additional marks should be on the body. The marks you show are "sub marks" on the handle. It being a Faberge object is less than minimal. (my opinion) ;-)))

=> As it comes from 1908-1926 and Faberge died in 1920 it is may be because of it's old age that this work is minimal!!!! ;-)))))

[Smokanabeach]

Here are pictures of the hallmarks I found in the Postnikova




That can help may be, as far as I do not speak russian ;-))

[Qrt.S]

First of all there is not a single object known that is made by Karl Faberge. He managed the company that was all. Secondly the marks you show from Postnikova are by some people considered "dubious". Is it this way or the other way is unclear. Your basket has insufficient markings. There should be Russian marks on every detachable part in an object. Here you have marks on the handle only.... The basket is not "Fabergé quality". Finally the mark КФ can as well be Karl Falck, Karl Fledenstein, Konstantin Fredriksson, Karl Fendt etc. etc. I do not say your basket a spurious object but only that is hardly made by Faberge, but by whom is a good question. Kindly notice that there are quite a lot of nameless masters in Russia who have punched their marks on objects they have made. Unfortunately that is that case...

[AG2012]

Qrt.S :The basket is not "Fabergé quality ….Here you have marks on the handle only..

Fully agreed; it’s light gauge neoclassical style machine pierced silver bread basket made throughout Europe. As said, one should really expect marks elsewhere, too, i.e. not only on the handle. Red arrows point to serious imperfections not to be expected to have left any of Faberge workshops. In short, one cannot attribute silver to Faberge based only on KФ stamped in a very unusual place (the handle),which is, by the way, rather clumsily soldered to the basket.

[Smokanabeach]

Thank you all for the time you grant to me!

As I first discover sterling silver through hallmarks (at the beginning especialy french sterling silver hallmark), it remains hard to me to "understand" the style of a manufacturer mark, especialy russian. For instance, looking the topic on fabergé egg, it is hard to me to make a real and precise difference between the egg given in example and the other one which is a real Fabergé egg...

I've got to practice my eyes to fully beginn to understand all that you, experts, find more easily ;-)

Speaking about Postnikova, is there another litterature more "efficient"?

Many thanks again.

Regards,

SMoka

P.S.: Is there a topic where we can post our items just to show them and discuss about, not necessarly to find makers' mark, origin, etc...?

[dognose]

Hi Smoka,

You're already in the right place. The forum is not just for straight forward questions and answers, but a place to discuss, or just share images of silverware or jewellery. Even if you know everything about an item, by sharing it on the forum we all learn a little more.

Trev.

[Qrt.S]

I wonder dear Smoka, do we have a terminological misunderstanding here. "Sterling" is the purity 925/1000 only and nothing else. Neither the Russians nor the French used this purity. I gather you mean "silver" in general.....or are you in USA?

Talking about Postnikova- That is the Russian bible regarding silver marks. The best you can get irrespective of its deficiencies. There are no other books available except lousy Postnikova copies with misspelled names, wrong years and new inefficiencies.

Here you see some authentic Fabergé eggs,
https://www.google.fi/search?q=faberg%C ... 35&bih=966

Or do you mean the two "Sazikov" eggs in this thread viewtopic.php?f=46&t=38500 (both are fakes)

Just asking my good man, just asking...

[Smokanabeach]

Don't worry qrt.s, i'm a 'student' in that forum who wants to learn from 'experts' as Trev or you for instance!

What is difficult to me is to understand and speak english first, then to be skilled as lot of people seem to be here.

About the egg, yes it was Zazikov ;-)

[Qrt.S]

Well here you learn English and fast. English is not my native tongue either as you can see from my location.

[Smokanabeach]

However... 1st French Minerva=925/1000 isn't? ;-)

[Qrt.S]

Yes but not earlier than as from 1973. But aren't we here talking antique silver...at least mostly?

[Smokanabeach]

1838 you mean ;-) in 1973 was intruced a Minerva a different square but same purity aniway!

[Qrt.S]

No, I mean 1973 when France reduced the 1st standard of silver from 950/1000 to sterling 925/1000. At the same time the figure under Minerva's chin representing the RAO office was replaced with a capital letter representing a date letter (A 1973-1982). The 2nd standard was and still is 800/1000. From 1838 to 1973 the standard was 950 and 800. This it at least in my sources. However this is the Russian site and French marks are rather difficult, not my area and we are out of topic too.