Russian Silver Karelian birch utensils

[markus]

Hello Everybody. I wonder if somebody from this esteemed forum can identify manufacturer, silversmith ...etc, of these fine Russian silver and cloisonne enameled Karelian birch utensils. It is obviously made from 1908.....according to marks. Some images of items and marks are attached. Thank you in advance for whatever help i can get.

[Zolotnik]

Hi markus -

your Karelian birch/enamel cloisonné objects are in very good shape! Unfortunately the marks are not pregnant enough (unreadable) to identify the maker - only that the pieces were made in (near) Moscow between 1908 and 1917.

Regards
Zolotnik

[markus]

Dear Zolotnik,

Thank you very much for your quick respond!

I actually believe that it's rather one of the St.Petersburg (possibly artel) jobs. It's my fault i accidentally posted double image of Zolotnik instead of Kokoshnik (attached) which i think belongs St. Pet. Besides i think the work itself is much finer than Moscow's I ever seen. Correct me if i am wrong. Admin edit read forum rules



Thanks in advance,
Mark

[Zolotnik]

Hi markus -
just a few things to clarify:

1) This is a Russian silver lover´s forum - not a "no charge appraisal office"!!!
2) 99% of all enamel cloisonné was made in and around Moscow - very, very little in St. Petersburg, by some famous firms
3) Your Karelian birch/enamel cloisonné objects are nice but "folcloristic" objects - made by many different firms - always in or around Moscow
4) The different Russian Artels were cooperatives, which worked in the highest quality levels possible - they made no simple and cheap articles (in the sense of makmanshift!)
5) Your photo - I see a dot left behind the head - take a loupe and have a look ...

6) Guarantee stamp for Moscow

7) Guarantee stamp for St. Petersburg


I repeat: your objects are nice and in this top condition today not often seen (the wood is often broken, missing etc.) - be happy and enjoy!

Regards
Zolotnik

[markus]

Dear Zolotnik,

i am new to the forum, so forgive my not so relevant question.
What is for the mark and the dot, believe it or not, but the dot is under the chin on both items-no mistake, which makes it a St. Petersburg manufacturer. It may be that you may have some additional comments based on this information. I would appreciate your insight very much

Thank you,
Mark

[Qrt.S]

There must be a maker's mark somewhere, try to find it. If there is no maker's mark, your object is spurious. I have said it a hundred times in this forum: It was forbidden for the assayer by law to mark an object without a maker's mark. The first thing for the master to do was to punch his mark on the object before he took it to the assayer. If there is place for an assayer's mark there is also place for the maker's mark, find it or realize cool facts. However, there is one single exception. That it is imported goods but this is hardly the case.

[Zolotnik]

Hi markus -
before we guess further - please clean the objects in lukewarm water, dishwasher solution and with the help of a soft toothbrush. You can do no harm to them! After cleaning please dry the wooden parts.
After that we will see more - there is the fragment of an maker when I remember right. And than we have a better look at the guarantee mark. Please try to make good photos.

Regards
Zolotnik

[markus]

Dear friends,

thank you for taking time and have posted your insights Here is some pictures i manage to make with my phone camera. Hopefully they are clear just enough. I can reassure you that under the magnifying glass it's unquestionably St. Petersburg marks. The maker mark is fairly clear on the spoon and entirely smudged on the fork (pictures are attached both ways up & down)









Once again thank you for your time and expertise

Sincerely,
Mark

[Zolotnik]

Hi markus -

in my sources I have no ОМК or ПМК if it is that in St. Petersburg or Moscow, sorry.

Regards
Zolotnik

[markus]

Dear Zolotnik,

thank you for not given up on me and taking time to research.

i found only one mentioning of П и К (I believe it reads this way) . Apparently somebody fairly known at times, judging by the type of orders. See link and highlight below:

http://www.mortonandeden.com/pdfcats/50web.pdf

1122
*University Graduate’s Badge, a high quality example in silver-gilt and enamels, with separately-marked Imperial eagle in gold,
maker П(?)иК, St Petersburg, 1908-17, height 63.8mm (P. & B. I, 2.17), with screw-back suspension, extremely fine

Thanks for your attention,

Mark
I may keep you posted if you wish if any new info i can find

[Zolotnik]

Hi markus -
you are right - it reads ПиК - (P&K) - also not in my sources.

Regards
Zolotnik

[markus]

Dear everybody,

here is our possible maker: Kudryashov Pavel Ivanovich, Silversmith, started 1867, owned a store in B. Silver row,2. St. Petersburg. Initials on the hallmark: ПК, ПИК
Gold and silversmiths in Russia (1600-1926), Guide for art experts, Volume 1 (Alexander Ivanov)

Best regards,
Mark

[Qrt.S]

Nice try Mark. I saw the same name but I don't think it is him. He is only "mentioned" having a shop in 1867, a "nobody". Your objects is, however, made not earlier than 1908. That means quite a gap of about 41 years. In my mind a bit too much. But it is only my opinion.