Russian Silver Bowl, Older than 1861?

[Granmaa]

I have a chased silver bowl which is marked with Russian marks for 1861, but the way in which it is marked and the style of the decoration makes me think that it could be older and simply marked later for resale.
Any thoughts?

Miles

[Qrt.S]

ES it seems to be !? Kindly remember that there is no Latin S in the Cyrillic alphabet. Cyrillic S is C. I'm afraid that the Russian origin is more than dubious. Have you noted that you have an additional mark something that looks like Moscow's St George riding sidewise below the "84" mark.

[Zolotnik]

Hi Granmaa -

the quality and the sujet looks like some Persian silver (which is originally marked with 84, assaymark and master in Efarsi), later "upgraded" with fake Russian marks. See example:


I am sure that you can find some traces of the Persian marks on your object.

Regards
Zolotnik

[Dad]

Hi, All.

No. It's not older than 1861. It's not Persian. It's not ES - it's ЕБ )))

It is Georgia (Caucasus) as a part of the Russian Empire. Assay master is Egor Bljumberg (Егор Блюмберг - ЕБ) 1841-1886 (P.-L.). Assay office - Tiflis (now Tbilisi). Town mark - St. George on horse. Maker mark - letters of the Georgian alphabet.
It is a typical Georgian ornament (pattern).



Best Reg..

[Zolotnik]

Hi all -
Georgia is famous for the lions......:-)

[Qrt.S]

Excellent work Dad!

[Dad]

Hi all -
Georgia is famous for the lions......:-)

Oh yes, Zolotnik, everybody of Georgian men thinks that he is lion.)))) Look at modern coins of the Republic Georgia. On them everywhere lions.
Example of the Georgian stamping (chekanka) on silver bowl ( XIX century) : http://www.jewellerymuseum.ru/georgia/georgia.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Items with Tiflis's town mark are rare. Tiflis's "St. George" confuse to the Moscow town mark often. I write for information. About a photo nobody will give 100 % of a guarantee of authenticity.))

Example of punches of Tiflis's assay office 1878 :



Best reg..

[Zolotnik]

Hi Dad -

thank you for your explanation!

Regards
Zolotnik

[Granmaa]

Thank you Dad and everyone for your help with my bowl.
Yet another example of how valuable this forum is.

Miles