Help! Pretty positive its silver, Russian?

[tux]

Hi Qrt.s

I'm not sure where you are from but here I am free to make wild guesses multiple times a day.
Correct I'm not interested in the maker, I was interested in: Silver yes/no, how much silver on 1000. (Not sure how to translate that)
The reverced hallmark could mean anything, it could be luck, it could say something about the makers day and why its possible he could have mixed up the other 2 marks as well... Could be we wheren't there.
"On these sites and many other similar sites it often claimed that it was a Russian rule that the hallmark and maker's mark should be marked like that" Not really sure for who that was...
Ah ok, I dont really care where a certain Aleksandr was in that period or who he was.
"Have a nice evening studying Russian marking procedures and legislation" Thanks but I don't study Russian silver, I'm only interested in $$$. I do care about Dutch silver, everything else is just a nice pile of silver in my display-closet.
But thanks for the trouble, if you learn something or enjoy hunting down all info, good for you.

[tux]

Offrecords: Helsinki is cool, Talinn as well :-D

[Dad]

Hi, All.

Here an example. Assaymaster Vyrzhikovskiy Alexander Kazimirovich (АВ) Warsaw 1899-1908.



For the information: the Metal factory of joint-stock company under the name “Norblin, Bracia Buch i T.Werner”
worked until the WWII (1939) with the big success.

Best Reg..

[Qrt.S]

Mind my asking Dad, but according to my sources Vyrzhikovskiy assayed in Kiev 1895-1904 and as from 1904/5 to 1908, some sources say to 1916 in Warsaw. Where from is your information? My question does not change anything regarding this matter, I'm just curious about Vyrzhikovskiy's working period.

[Zolotnik]

Hi Dad -
my sources name for the first Kokoshnik marks period (1899-1908), assayerAB as Andrzei Wyrzykov (April 1904-1908)!

Regards
Zolotnik

[Qrt.S]

Transliteration problems again. The questioned assayer's Russian name is АЛЕКСАНДР КАЗИМИРОВИЧ ВЫРЖИКОИСКИЙ In Poland named Anderzei Wyrzykov, same person. But the period?

[Qrt.S]

I know, I'm bit out of topic but I felt necessary to tell you that the first kokshnik period starts as from July 1st 1896 and not in 1899 as mentioned in many books. However, actually nothing happens before the latter part of 1898 when these two hallmarks are released:

Unfortunately it very soon turns out that the above mentioned hallmarks are not according to the regulation. Pay attention to the small fineness figures and that is not all incorrectness, the size is also wrong. All in all the release is close to a catastrophe and new actions are taken. St Petersburg Mint Office starts to make a new hallmark. This hallmark is now made according to the rules and released in January 1st 1899 and the previous marks are immediately abolished. Please see it below.

However, sometime between 1899-1908 a new hallmark, almost similar to the previous one is released. I don't know when that happens. I would be happy if somebody could tell me that as well as why this new shape was released. Anyway, see it below:

In general the whole assay chart release of 1896 is a disaster and already in 1905 new regulations are prepared and a new hallmark, the right looking kokoshnik is released in Jamuary 21st 1908. This one:

This right looking kokshnik is used until June 22th 1927 and not 1917 as also wrongly stated in many books. As from June 23rd 1927 a new hallmark is released, the "rabota" but that is another story....

I hope you will find this interesting, I did when I read it years ago.

Have a nice day

Qrt.S

[Dad]

Mind my asking Dad, but according to my sources Vyrzhikovskiy assayed in Kiev 1895-1904 and as from 1904/5 to 1908, some sources say to 1916 in Warsaw. Where from is your information? My question does not change anything regarding this matter, I'm just curious about Vyrzhikovskiy's working period.

Hi, All.

"1899-1908" It's not the period of work Vyrzhikovskij А.К. It is the period of use of hallmark of this kind.

М. Gradovsky in his book "Marks on silver in Poland" writes the data about Warsaw's period of Vyrzhikovskij A.K. as 1904-1908 .
About it tells the Zolotnik (as about Andrzei Wyrzykov).

I don't know all. But with 100 % of guarantee I can tell:

Kiev:

In 1898 Vyrzhikovskij A.K. was head of assay office in Kiev.
In 1901 Vyrzhikovskij A.K. was head of assay office in Kiev.
In 1904 Vyrzhikovskij wasn't in Kiev. The post of the head of assay office in Kiev was vacant.
In 1906 Oleks L.F. was head of assay office in Kiev, already.

Warsaw:

In 1899 Romanov A.V. was head of assay office in Warsaw.
In 1910 Vyrzhikovskij A.K. was head of assay office in Warsaw.

Sources: The memorial books of the Warsaw,
The memorial books of the Kiev, the List of mountain engineers 1910

Best Reg..

[Qrt.S]

Thank you Dad.

Please read what I wrote about the left looking kokoshnik's period. It was the latter part of 1898 (not 1899) to 1908

[Dad]

In addition.
A citation from state register of officials (fourth class) 1907. Here it is written : in 1907 Vyrzhikovskij A.K. was head of assay office in Warsaw.



Sources: "Списокъ гражданскимъ чинамъ четвертаго класса" С.-Петербургъ. Сенатская типографiя. 1907

Best Reg..

[Dad]

Hi, All.

Better late, than never.))))
I think, it is the good proof. It is Werner's work :




Best Reg..

[Zolotnik]

Hi Dad -

thanks for clearing this case - I learned a lot!

Regards
Zolotnik

[R ingo]

Hello,
Russian silver is not my field of activity,
but may be it is interesting in this discussion, that I have an identic spoon, makt "T. Werner..?", "NIP" and the second Kokoshnik mark.
If unimportant, pardon me.

Kind regards,
Ringo

[Dad]

Hi.

NiP - Nagalski i Psyk

[Zolotnik]

Hi Ringo -

here the complete mark (with trade mark). As always the question: who is the maker and who is the vendor? One spoon is made by T.WERNER (real by Nast) the other is made by Nagalski i Psyk or vice versa. Nobody knows exactly how these firms made business with each other....Polish silver is always good for a surprise!



Regards
Zolotnik

[R ingo]

Hello Zolotnik,
I thank you very much for your help.

Kind regards,
Ringo