risque cigarette case marked IES

[tugley]

Hi
Would anyone be able to help with this cigarette case, unfortunately I have tried taking pictures of the marks but could they came out blurred. All I can make out were 84 stamped twice on the top rim of the main case, in the same place are the initials IES and one other mark which is too rubbed to see but seems to be in the shape of a shamrock. Is this actually russian silver or a french silverplate, and any ideas of the age?
Many thanks
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n62 ... C01899.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n62 ... C01900.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n62 ... C01901.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n62 ... C01902.jpg

[dognose]

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

Try drawing the marks, then photograph or scan the drawing.

Trev.

[tugley]

Hi Trev
Thanks for the advice, amateur drawings as follows
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n628/tugley/001.jpg

[Qrt.S]

Ayayay, your not much of a photographer. are you? Nonetheless, irrespective of the lousy photos I can tell you that IES is Johan Erik Sällman. A Finn born on 10.5.1816 i Pojo/Pohja in Finland. He came in 1830 to St Petersburg in Russia and became journeyman and in 1835 he got his master certificate. He was married to Christina Carolina Österman on 3.12.1844. Sällman died on 24.5.1891.

[tugley]

Guilty as charged, lousy photos and drawings, but thanks for the info, good to know that it is indeed Russian silver, do you think the enamel was added at a later date and is this why there are two 84 marks?

[piette]

Hi,
Much of what Qrt.S has said but:

These are the marks on your item:




The marks would suggest that this item was made 1853-1864 in St Petersburg by Erik Johann Sallman, a Finnish born silversmith who moved to St Petersburg in 1830 and became a master in 1853.

Also, tugley - all detachable parts of the item had to be marked and this is why there are two 84 marks. I am assuming one is on the main body and one on the lid?

Regards,
Piette

[tugley]

Hi Piette
Both 84 marks are on the top rim of the main case, there may be another mark underneath the spring loaded top but this is so small as to be indecipherable
Regards
Tugley

[Postnikov]

Hi tugley -
all the informations you got are on point. Only the erotic enamel plaque is not original and was later added. In Russia a cigarette case with visible erotica was unthinkable.

Regards
Postnikov

[Qrt.S]

Yes of course, Postnikov is absolutely right. Sällman became master in 1853 and not in 1835, my typo, sorry. He marked from 1853 to his death in 1891

[tugley]

Thanks for all you help, I have now been able to take photos of the marks and attach them below, the third picture is from under the top of the lid, the others are from the top rim of the main body of the case.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n62 ... ussian.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n62 ... ssian2.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n62 ... ssian3.jpg

I can make out IES which has kindly been explained to me but I am struggling to make out the others, is anybody able to help please

kind regards

Tugley

[piette]

These are the marks on your item:




First mark: 84 = Russian silver standard 87.5%
Second mark: Crossed Anchors = St Petersburg Town mark, 1818-1864
Third mark: Makers mark = Erik Johann Sallman

[Qrt.S]

Sorry but I don't quite catch you, what others?