is this real Fabergé

[oel]

Hello Mylostsilver,

It looks like HR in stylized Art Deco letters.

Regards,

Oel

[mylosilver]

I cant tell at all. i see the r and h now though,


thank you oel=)

[oel]

Hi,

Yes, little H over and under bigger R. Actually I must say stylized Art Nouveau letter.
See link: http://www.fontbros.com/cgi-bin/commerc ... =HAFO-ENMO

Regards,

Oel

[mylosilver]

that is a great website you have linked me to. It is going to my favourites=)

[oel]

Hi,

One more, last interesting link, about monograms and lettering Art Nouveau/Art Deco style like your monogram. Sometimes it is not easy to determine. Have fun with it during Xmas!
http://www.designspongeonline.com/2008/ ... tters.html

Regards and with Season Greetings,

Oel

[Postnikov]

Hi mylosilver -

just to make sure what was written:
Your cigarette case is in first line from Finland (very important the mark "krown" in this form), meaning local production and the year letter - so one can exactly date the year and country of manufacture. There is absolutely no doubt. The "Russian marks" are fake marks. Odessa was delivered from the Fabergé workshops in Moscow or St. Petersburg, with the appropriet marks of the respective shop. Odessa, like Kiev and London had no workshops (in the sense of producing something), they had small "repair"shops to help customers who had minor problems, like shorten chains, making too small or too large rings fit, etc. Viktor Aarne was not the only one who worked In Russia (Fabergé) and later returned home in his country. Bolin was an other famous jeweller, who left before the Revolution and produced in his home country.

Marking of masters on Fabergé objects:

some workmaster and the chief wormaster were allowed to sign with their initials - the firmname Fabergé was not used in this case - the same vice versa. Fabergé is a very special chapter and you must invest some years to understand who did what and how. That is the reason why fakers are always wrong!

Regards
Postnikov

[mylosilver]

hi postnikov

thank you for the helpful information.

I managed to find something you might be interested in.

Take a look at post number 5 where you can expand her discussion.

The other topics are quite interesting also.

http://forum.artinvestment.ru/showthread.php?t=26116

[Qrt.S]

Hello everybody,

Since I'm from Finland and I think I know the Finnish marks and marking procedure as well as the Russian procedure. Maybe you allow me to tell the what the marks show? Let's start with the Finnish marks. The marks from left. It is made by Johan Viktor Aarne (maker's mark JVA). He was born 1863 in Tampere and he past away 1934 in Viborg. The next mark is the crown of the Grand Duchy of Finland in a heart shaped cartouche. It is the Finnish official silver mark marked by the assay office. The next mark (813.H) is the purity mark indicating 813/1000 silver content. The "H" stands for the Finnish word "hopea" meaning silver. The next mark E5 is the year mark for 1910. The last mark W is the town mark for the former Finnish town Viborg/Viipuri on the Carelian Isthmus which was lost to Soviet during WWII. A Finnish made object has usually only one set of marks irrespective of is there detachable parts or not. The case is not a fake but the Russian marks are. You will read about them later in this message.

Johan Victor Aarne studied in Tampere and Hämeenlinna in Finland. Between 1880-1890 he worked with Fabergé in St Petersburg. However, he was homesick and returned in 1890 to Tampere and became master. For a year he worked there but then he decided to move back to St Petersburg and the actual famous co operation with Fabergé started. Aarne had his workshop on Demidov pereulok 58 in St P. The workshop manufactured miniature frames often decorated with enamel in guilloché tehcnique in the style of art nuoveau. He also decorated objects in glass with silver. Aarne's colleagues called him "our Lalique". In 1904 Aarne decided to move back to Finland and sold his workshop in StP to Hjalmar Armfelt. He settled down in Viborg and opened a shop and a workshop there. He was very successful and a famous goldsmith until his death in 1934.

The Russian marks on the case is as already earlier mentioned complete nonsense/fakes and added later. You may ask why and I might guess that because Aarne had worked with Fabergé some faker thought that adding "Fabergé marks" would increase the value of the case...maybe. The stupidity is that the Russian marks are in contradiction with the Finnish marks. No object can carry such marking.

Moreover, Fabergés workshops in Odessa and Kiev were not only repair shops but had also a minor production of their own as told earlier. No use for further discussion regarding this matter.

Seasons Greetings

Qrt.S

[mylosilver]

well said qrt.s

[Qrt.S]

Thank you mylosilver. However, a minor corrections. With my last sentence I meant that no use for further discussion regarding the workshops in Odessa and Kiev not mylosilvers cigarette case. This discussion might continue if necessary of course.

[Postnikov]

Hi -
here is the missing photo of Johann Viktor Aarne



Regards
Postnikov

[Qrt.S]

Forgot to mention that Aarne marked his objects in Cyrillic with BA when he worked in St Petersburg, later in Viborg he used Latin letters J.V.A

[Etranger]

hi everybody,
yesterday I saw golden cufflinks marked by Faberge and 56 hallmark so does anybody know about golden items from Faberge?
regards

[Qrt.S]

??? Know what...? What do you want to know?...

[Etranger]

I mean may be someone has seen any cufflinks with kokoshnik 56 and additional mark 56 in square cartouche?

[Qrt.S]

Actually Etranger you shouldn't make your questions of different matters in mylosilver's thread. You should open your own thread. However, the answer is rather simple so be it.

Usually cufflinks are marked with the kokoshnik in an oval cartouce on the body or the stem. Anticipating that the weight is more that 2 kokoshniki. The fineness (56) mark in a square is marked on the other half. This is the ordinary way of marking cufflinks made in Russia. The size of the oval is 4x 2 mm and the square 1,25x1,25 mm. Minor variations in marking depending on the weight and/or the construction of the stem. There can also be punced a separate kokshnik in a round cartouch with a diameter of 2 mm on the other part where there is no oval cartouch kokoshnik. If the total weight is less than 2 zolotniki the the main kokoshnik's cartouch has the form of a shovel and not an oval shape and the kokoshnik is looking down. Gem stones etc. are not included in the weight only the precious metal. This answer is simplified.

I'm still not sure if this was what you wanted to know???

[Etranger]

Yes, thanks Qrt.S Happy New Year

[Qrt.S]

No problem, you're welcome.
Happy New Year to you too

Qrt.S

[ARGENTUM49]

hi again,

I forgot to add another set of hallmarks which you can see at the top of the inside.


thanks

Finland 1910 ! Purity 813, well under 84 and let alone 88. FAKED MARKS.
ENAMELED PIECES ARE HARD TO FAKE BY ADDING NEW HALLMARKS BECAUSE STRIKING FAKE HALLMARKS WOULD CRACK ENAMEL.
THREFORE, FORGET PLAIN SILVER BY FABERGE.

[piette]

ENAMELED PIECES ARE HARD TO FAKE BY ADDING NEW HALLMARKS BECAUSE STRIKING FAKE HALLMARKS WOULD CRACK ENAMEL.
THREFORE, FORGET PLAIN SILVER BY FABERGE.

What is the point of taking this view?
There are plenty of genuine non enamelled Fabergé items out there... You just have to look for them.
Regards,
Piette