Silver riza. Alekseev?

[Etranger]

As we mostly discuss spoon, forks etc. I propose also objects of russian sacral art to talk about. Last week I've seen a silver riza (oklad) which looks a litlle dubious, eespecially small plate (drobnitsa in russian) with name of Pantakrator because of the difference in enamel technics.And what do you think?

[piette]

Hi Etranger,
In my opinion, the hallmarks are of very dubious origin.
Regards,
Piette

[Postnikov]

Hi Etranger -

this is the typical copper galvano - plastic oklad with simple galvano-plastic enamel clausonné and an artificial craquelé of the painting.
Nice fake icon!

By the way. can you show us some authentic Russian silver? Always fakes is very boring...

Regards
Postnikov

[Etranger]

Hi Postnikov,
you mean if i use a file i can see just a copper not silver, right?
I try to show you something authentic but I think I am condemn to failure )))
may be this small icon

[Postnikov]

Hi Etranger -

I do not expect that you are a clairvoyant - I just thought you are interested what it is and how it is made by the fakers. I really do not know why you post only fakes which you have in your files? Are you collecting fakes?


You can do me a favour: please translate or explain the words: 1) лжица 2) резъбой

Thanks in advance
Postnikov

[Postnikov]

Hi Etranger-

again a fake!

Regards
Postnikov

[Etranger]

I just thought you are interested what it is and how it is made by the fakers

I post that I see everyday and i'm not a collector at all, I am an art historian but not in a silver. It is just really interesting for me. So please explain you opinion about these two item.
Thanks in advance
PS I tranlate this words in Nikolaev topic

[Etranger]

Another one, that one guy bought recently


I am afraid bad news for him, hehe

[piette]

Hi Etranger,
Another fake, I believe.

The hallmarks alone on the first item indicate it is a fake. The kokoshnik is the wrong shape.

You are an art historian.. I assume you have an interest in all kinds of art :-) Take a look at this item...
http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=22542
It is quite interesting - very unusual!

Regards,
Piette

[Postnikov]

Hi Etranger -

again a fake - in Hollywoodstyle!
Please read the article about Khlebnikov and his marks in this forum! As far as I know, Khlebnikov never made oklads.... but his name is good to sell to ignorant customers. Easy business!

Regards
Postnikov

[Etranger]

And what's wrongin a small icon?

[Postnikov]

Hi Etranger -

the marks!

Regards
Postnikov

[Etranger]

You mean that it doesn't pass to # 2016 PL?
and what about it on cheap cigarette case? what sence to fake marks on items which have a price of silver scrap? (spoon etc.)
if i found for you cheep spoon marked LO 1894 at nearest market do you change your mind about Oleks job in this year?

[piette]

Hi Etranger,
At first I had a similar mind set to you...
"This is a cheap item --> it must be fake because no one would bother faking such a cheap item"

You would be surprised...
They will fake anything that they think they can make a profit on.

Watch out about discussing values on this website. It is not allowed.

If you were to find a cheap, plain spoon with Lev Oleks assay mark for the year 1894, then this would not change anything. The spoon that you would have found would most certainly still be a fake.

Regards,
Piette

[Etranger]

Hi Piette,
let me to be not agrree - every fake making has to have economical background otherwise it's absurd
if silver rubbish cost about 1 USD per gramm no sence to spent a time faking spoon that cost the same price
Regards

[piette]

Hi Etranger,
I don't want to discuss values - I know it is not the reason that this site is here...
Bear in mind - items are not selling for their 'scrap' value.
Please read my PM to you.
Regards,
Piette

[Etranger]

Hi Postnikov,
here is oklad with experts conclusion of Grabar's center as Khlebnikov and sons

again fake and even there (nowdaysin Russia according to law 2 museum can give expert conclusion only and one of them is Grabar center) guys are ignorants?
Regards

[piette]

Can you post pictures of the marks also?
Regards,
Piette

[Postnikov]

Hi Etranger -

we both new that much more fakes than authentic pieces circulate worldwide. I am not the "super fake watcher" who see only fakes around him. Members on this site with year long experience and knowledge just want to stop the unknowing and naive or just in good faith to buy on every corner "authentic Russian silver", only the best names of course. That is all. Many of our users made already very bad and costly experiences with fakes - they try to learn how to distinguish all this forgeries.

If you like the shown objects, icons (maybe you know the history of your country? Where have all this brandnew icons been stored since 1917? Why are they still incountry and have not been sold in the 80´s to the West for many $$? Normal Russian people can not afford icons like that - only stupid, ignorant newly rich. They are not made for the worldmarket - they are made for your country! I travelled a lot in Russia for years and I know what papers, certificates etc. you get for money - even from the Ministry of Culture in St. Petersburg!

So - please stop posting all this time wasting nonsense - buy it if you like it and trust your experts.
I will not answer posts like that anymore.

Regards
Postnikov

[Etranger]

I am not the "super fake watcher" who see only fakes around him. Members on this site with year long experience and knowledge just want to stop the unknowing and naive or just in good faith to buy on every corner "authentic Russian silver", only the best names of course. That is all.

Hi Postnikov,
ok, I agree with some of your reason but if today normal people cannot afford this item it doesn't mean that same situation was before. In time when such production was much more widely-spread.
and if you proclaim you aim as a "stop fike" - just do it, paying your attention at the concrete objects, because today it's proposed here and tomorrow abroad.
you don't reply to my question about mark on pectoral icon
Regards