Cloisonne box; russian item?

[Silbersammler]

Next unknown item of my collection: a big cloisonne box of silver with rubies. The hallmark resembles the russian hallmarks, but there are no further stamps, so I have doubts whether the box originates from Russia.
Any Idees?
Kind regards
Steffen

[Qrt.S]

Well...Yes it resembles but that's about all. The mark looks very worn (too worn, is my opinion...), the shield's shape differs, there is no Greek letter to the left, the font is a bit strange as well as the kokoshnik, no maker's mark etc...Anyway, such an assayer's mark was used between 1908-(1917)1926.

You say there are no other marks on the item. Please keep in mind that is was strictly forbidden for the assayer to mark an item which didn't carry the maker's mark. But, if an item has only the assayer's mark it means that it is a to Russia imported item and brought to the assayer by the Russian customs. Your box might be genuine, but I don't think it is made in former Russia.

A Russian box like this should have both the maker's as well as the assayer's marks on every detachable part. In this case on body and lid. Try to find more marks. Where is the mark you show located and what are the box's measures? What is "big"???

Have a nice day

Qrt.S

[Postnikov]

Hi -
your enamel cloisonné box is Persian. Persia used the same 84 zolotniki mark like Russia, which had a historical background. 84 = 875/1000 silvercontent. If you look closer (loope!) you should find the maker´s/silversmith´s/artist´s name in Efarsi (persian script). If the box is of normal size it is for cigarres or cigarettes - if it is larger (book format) it was the keeping of the Koran. Most of the Persian silver and enamel is of excellent quality - unfortunately it is undervalueded until today. You have a nice piece of Persian culture!

Regards
Postnikov

[Postnikov]

Hi -
forgot to post a picture of the typical Persian markings......



Regards
Postnikov

[Silbersammler]

Good Morning to all,
thank you very much for your thoughts.
The box is around 27 cm x 18 cm with a high of 15 cm, the weight around 1,7 kg.
The hallmark is located on the downside of the box and inside of the Cover (the 2 hallmarks looks very similar).
There are absolutely no other hallmarks to find.

I think like Qrt.S, the mark is too worn to be a genuine russian hallmark. On the other side: Enamel is from outstanding quality, I have also some genuine fine russian cloisonne items, they are not better. The stones are also genuine, so this is not a cheap copy of russian silver. This is the mystery here: if someone makes a so wonderful work, why he does not use his own hallmarks but a "cheap russian hallmark copy"?? That does not fit to the quality of the box.


@ Postnikov: there is no persian script to find. I like persian silver very much and also have in my collection some items with a persian 84-hallmark. But this looks different without the head and combined with other hallmarks (like your exampel). And this kind of enamel I have never seen at a persian box.

Kind regards
Steffen

[Qrt.S]

OK, but it would be very interesting to see the other "hallmark" too. Could you show a big and sharp picture of it, please? It could give some more clues. Thank you in advance.

[Silbersammler]

@ Qrt.S
I have the box and a big cup (with the same hallmark and the same cloisonne) not here im my house but in a safe deposit area (only the pictures on my laptop and more details / description in an excel-sheet). I will soon take out the items and will take more pictures of all hallmarks and the second item.
Please some patience
kind regards
Steffen

[Qrt.S]

No problem. However, I'll be out of town for a couple of days. You have some patience too. Thank you.