Help Please with a Soviet Era Hallmark

[orkney]

Hi,

Could anyone please help ID the city & makers mark on this Silver mounted drinking ? horn vessel ?

The silver rim mount & end cap are both marked with the .875 & hammer & sickle mark, with a small 'r' to the left of the star, & a makers mark, which looks like 4T10.

There is also another mark on the end cap which looks like u22.0 (I've searched the forum & web, but have no idea what this mark represents).

Any help or guidance would be appreciated,

Kind Regards, Douglas.




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[Postnikov]

Hi -

your drinking horn is typical for the Georgian region. The letterГ (lat. G) is the townmark of Tbilisi (Tiflis, capital of the state) in use since May 7th 1958, 875 is the silver content, hammer, sickle and star is the soviet assay mark of that time

The mark 4ТЮ, (lt. 4TJu) stands for: 4 (year of manufacture 1974), T (Tbilisi) and Ю (the manufacturer Juwelirnij Zawod).

The mark Ц220 could be a model number.

Regards
Postnikov
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[orkney]

Hi Postnikov,

Thank you very much for your time & the detailed information, it is very much appreciated

Kind Regards & thanks again,

Douglas.
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[Nero5]

Hi!
Ц 22.00 is for value : Ц - first letter of ЦEHA - tsena - price, 22.00 - 22.00 rubels. In former USSR the price was marked on item ( no inflation, no competition).
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[Postnikov]

Hi Nero5 -
interesting news! I have seen thousands of Soviet silver items but never saw this Ц mark + price in Rubles. Do you have some documentation for this? Was it used only in certain years or regions? Any information very apprechiated!

Regards
Postnikov
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[Nero5]

Hello Postnikov!
You are right I too didn't see this mark on silver, but I have some melkhior pices with prices on them. It was very usuall in former USSR to print the price on porcelain etc. If you like I will take pictures and show here. Besides there are no such model marking in USSR.
Regards
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[Postnikov]

Hi Nero5 -
thank you very much for your answer. I would like to see some photos you have of objects with this Ц mark if you do not mind. Even in Н. Г. Троепольская, the bible of soviet marking 1917-2000 I could not find anything. Big riddle!

Regards
Postnikov
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[Nero5]

Hi !
I took the pictures. How to put them here?
Regards
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[dognose]

This should help: http://www.925-1000.com/images.html

Trev.
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[Lea]

That is indeed a price mark, required by Soviet law to prevent merchants from marking up the price and making what was deemed an indecent profit. I too have a number of melchior items with those marks, as well as leather goods with cloth tags sewn in with the same price mark.

One of the problems with the mark, in relation to silver goods is that it often takes the form of, say, '2p80K', i.e. two rubles and eighty kopeks, but many, many people interpret this last part as a fineness mark and claim that it means the item is 800 silver. (Let's not even contemplate 'K' as a silver mark, or how '80' becomes '800', lol.)

Lea, a bit late in the thread, having just joined

[dognose]

Hi Lea,

Welcome to the Forum.

We look forward to reading your future posts.

Trev.

[silvercollector99]

Hello,

I have a silver plated salt spoon from the soviet era that has price stamped. It says Ц1р30к, or 1 rubel 30 kopek. I also have 2 soviet salt containers but will need a better lens to get a picture.





I hope this helps.

[Zolotnik]

Hi -

an other example



Regards
Zolotnik

[Qrt.S]

To silvercollector99

Your salt spoon is hardly plated but made of a Soviet alloy called ЮММЕТ i.e. jummet meaning juvelirnaja metal. It is claimed that this alloy would be about 70% nickel and 30% silver but I'm not absolutely sure.

[Lea]

I-OMMET is not an alloy!

It is the factory mark used by Mstera Jewellers for its metal objects. The I-O is for 'jeweller' (in Russian, obviously), the first M for Mstera, and MET to indicate that it is a non-precious metal. Often there is a number in front of the name to indicate a year in the sixties, or between the two Ms to indicate a year in the seventies.

The name of the metal is melchior, an alloy of copper, nickel, and zinc. The largest component is the copper. Like nickel silver, it was developped as a silver substitute, but contains absolutely no silver. Sometime in the sixties, fancier objects or tourist items, such as salt cellars, became silverplated. Melchior was also widely used for jewellery.

Lea,
trying to set the record straight,
even if she is almost three years late!

[Qrt.S]

Dear Lea,

Your statement is interesting indeed. Until now it has been rather unclear what is the content of this ЮММЕТ- alloy/metal. It is assumed that it would be nickel alloyed with some silver, but...? However, what you call "melchior" is commonly known as German Silver/Alpaca... etc.. Soviet manufactured objects made of this alloy are usually marked МHЦ i.e. Медь, Никель и Цинк (copper, nickel and zinc). Anyway, I have heard it claimed before that ЮММЕТ would be the same as МHЦ but any proves/sources have never been provided. In addition, and mind my saying but when different metals are melted together the result is called alloy.

You also state that "ЮММЕТ" is a factory mark. The abbreviation you present is most likely correct but could you kindly explain why it cannot be found in any singe book I am aware of and especially not in the already mentioned Soviet mark "bible" Troepolskaja. The mark ЮММЕТ is not a rare mark it is often seen on Soviet made objects especially on those filigree "podstakanniks" (tea glass holders) and enameled salt cellars among on other objects.

As to the records I would appreciate very much if you would be so kind and present the source(s) where from you have found this information. I guarantee it would interest many people using this site me included. Thank you in advance.

[Lea]

"Until now it has been rather unclear what is the content of this ЮММЕТ- alloy/metal."

Your statement shows exactly where the problem lies: 'I-OMMET' is not an 'alloy/metal': there is not more 'content' to it than any other maker's name/stamp. It simply means that it was made by the Mstera Jewellers factory. The closest it comes to declaring anything about content is the MET part, which was a commonly used designation for non-precious metal. It doesn't even say what sort of base metal was used. Just think of I-OMMET as a name, nothing more, nothing to do with content.

I first became curious about I-OMMET and melchior when I started collecting what I call Russian tourist salts. They all had the I-OMMET stamp, plus price stamps. Some Russian lists/sites suggested that it was a name/factory mark, but it wasn't until I found some of these salts in their original boxes that I learned for certain that they were made by Mstera Jewellers, which was clearly marked on the bottom of the boxes, which also specified that the metal used was melchior, which is indeed a copper-nickel-zinc alloy. Some of the boxes from later dates also stated that they had been silverplated and the amount of silver used to do this. The silverplating seems to have started sometime in the '60s, but I don't have an exact date.

It does seem strange that there doesn't seem to be any reference in print to I-OMMET, because stuff with that stamp was, as you state, very widely used. I suppose it could be for that very reason that the stamp is not documented, just like our generic cutlery that is only stamped 'IKEA'. It just wasn't special enough to be celebrated, lol!

I've been trying to post a picture of the bottom of the box, which clearly says 'metal melchior' in Russian, but it is now around 5:30 a.m. here and I can't quite get my brain to figure out how. I shall see if I have more success after I've been to sleep, and then had my morning coffee. :-)

Hyvasti, Lea

[Qrt.S]

Still very interesting and undoubtedly a minor problem but you haven't answered my question yet. Where from do you pick this information or are you only assuming it based only on text on the box? A picture of the box would absolutely be interesting.

Here is the link to how to add images: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10 Preferably read the whole chapter. When I see your picture I will definitely continue this discussion.

Mind my saying and a nice try but please do not use the word "hyvästi" for goodbye. It is a hard half offending salutation/word meaning goodbye to you for ever, instead use formal "näkemiin" (au revoir/ see you) or informal "terve" (a friendly "bye" also "hi").

Terve :-))))))

Qrt.S

[Dad]

Hello.

We discussed it not once. http://925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... %82#p53250

I will repeat: ЮM is a mark of the maker. МЕТ - designation of a basic material - a non-noble alloy (reduction from the word "МЕТАЛЛ"). Other producers had marking non-noble alloys such the: "мнц", "Cu-Ni" and another.
I hope my new examples will convince you. Please look at year figures in the punches. They was placed according to rules for maker's marks accepted in the USSR after 1953.

Мстерская художественная фабрика «Ювелир» 1962 :





Мстерская художественная фабрика «Ювелир» 1967 :






Terve )))

[Qrt.S]

I'm familiar with the mentioned topic. However, you never answered my question in that topic Dad. The problem is not the mark but the alloy's content. We shall see what Lea will show us.