Russian Silver beaker/ Kiddush cup w Contraindictory marks ?

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
rob h
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Russian Silver beaker/ Kiddush cup w Contraindictory marks ?

Postby rob h » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:33 pm

This beaker/cup is app. 3 " high and 1 1/4" wide at top. The cartouche marks seem to indicate it was the second kokoshnik mark assayed in Kiev between 1908-1926. But the makers mark is similar to one used between 1870 -1880 from Odessa. Also I am not sure what type of vessel this is ? Can someone please help ?

Image
Image
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Juke
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Postby Juke » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:24 am

Hi!

In the picture it looks that the letter could well be 'Chi' for Odessa. The left bracket down might have not been struck well or has been worn out. In my references I didn't find the makers mark but you probably have found it somewhere else. I beaker is a typical vodka beaker.

Regards,
Juke
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Juke
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Postby Juke » Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:36 am

Just to add that most likely it is not the one which you refer to (from 1870-1880) as he worked 30-40 years earlier but an unknown silversmith. It is typical that all the silversmiths are not known as the the number of silversmiths increased dramatically in later periods like 1908-1926
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Qrt.S
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Postby Qrt.S » Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:25 am

I have also tried to find out about this mark, but unfortunately with poor results. I'm not fully convinced (yet) that it is Odessa's cipher. Its cipher very similar to chi but it is the written kappa (K) letter. The cipher chi is for Don and therefore we should maybe look at Astrakhan, but I haven't found anything there either.

With some fantasy the cipher could also be the written ni for Kiev, but...? Nothing found there...

Is there any marks behind the neck and/or below the chin e.g. dot(s), dash or anything?
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Juke
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Postby Juke » Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:57 am

Hi!

I am sure you are correct on the kappa, in PL I could not decide if it is a chi or kappa but then it is a kappa. Aren't the dot's/dash's for the circular mark only?

Regards,
Juke
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Qrt.S
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Postby Qrt.S » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:18 am

Yes, you're right, its only for the circular mark, sorry. So we have tree possibilities here, Kiev, Odessa and Don and no match whatsoever, strange...
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