Russian, not russian, fake?

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
amena
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Russian, not russian, fake?

Postby amena » Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:59 am

A friend of mine asked me for an opinion on an icon that belonged to her late father.
Image
There are many things that leave me perplexed: the riza is very thin and does not seem to be worked by hand. There are also two different oval punches whose meaning I don't know, but I don't have enough knowledge of the subject to make a judgment.
Can any of you give me your opinion?
Thanks in advance
Amena

AG2012
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Re: Russian, not russian, fake?

Postby AG2012 » Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:40 am

Hi,
Looks OK to me; Kokoshnik either in an oval or circle are both legitimate,the latter often as a secondary mark.
At the time they already used die presses and etched the decoration.
I think ИМ is for
МНЕКИН Иван Николаевич
Mnekin Ivan Nikolaevich in Moscow.

Regards
  

Qrt.S
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Re: Russian, not russian, fake?

Postby Qrt.S » Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:02 am

Yes, it looks OK, but mind my saying, I don't think it is Mnekin. The M in his mark looks different. Of course he could have used several punches, but ...? There is also no mentioning in mine sources that he would have made rizas. Unfortunately I have no alternative to present.
Btw. Mnekin's second name was Николаев (Nikolajev). He was active in Moscow around 1886~1909.

amena
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Re: Russian, not russian, fake?

Postby amena » Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:08 am

Many thanks for your comments.
I will communicate the good news to my friend, that she will be very happy.
To improve my knowledge on the subject, could you tell me the meaning of the mark found on the parts of the riza without kokoshnik?
Image
Best
Amena

AG2012
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Re: Russian, not russian, fake?

Postby AG2012 » Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:50 am

Nothing to decipher here.

oel
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Re: Russian, not russian, fake?

Postby oel » Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:14 am

Hi, to me it appears to be very similar to the kokoshnik mark, the woman's head facing left, wearing the traditional headdress known as a kokoshnik, implemented 1898 until 1908. Left in oval nummer 84, assayer perhaps Lebedkin(?)
Your image turned, enhanced.
Image
Indeed a very bad punch, I believe both marks to be a deformed kokoshnik
Peter.

amena
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Re: Russian, not russian, fake?

Postby amena » Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:36 am

Thanks Peter,
I would never have recognized it.
Best regards
Amena

Qrt.S
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Re: Russian, not russian, fake?

Postby Qrt.S » Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:22 am

Excellent Peter, well done, good eyes indeed. I minor comment: The left looking kokoshnik with big figures (84) was implemented 1899. This has been discussed here earlier. The kokshnik with small figures implemented in the second half of 1898 was a disaster and against the regulation. Therefore it was renewed with big figures in 1899 according to the regulation. This is no big deal, but good to remember ( small 84 figures is always latter half of 1898).

Mart
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Re: Russian, not russian, fake?

Postby Mart » Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:04 pm

There is no reason to believe that kokoshnik appeared in 1898. From the beginning of 1899, he was with a small "84", and a few months later with a large "84".


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