Gazyr - Газырь

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
Silverstone
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:41 am
Location: Germany

Gazyr - Газырь

Postby Silverstone » Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:39 am

Hi,

Dad wrote – 21.10.2010

„I believe that this subject is GAZYR - part of military clothes of Cossacks and the people of the Caucasus. Gazyri were capsules for gunpowder in old time. 1 gazyr - 1 shot from a gun. Then it became simply part of ornament for a military uniform...
Usually the cylinder was wooden + silver caps, but the rich person could have gazyri from solid silver.“

Image

I own two "mysterious capsules" in niello-technique.
The upper and lower parts of my two objects are made of silver.

Image

Image Image

a) 7 cm - 33 gr
b) 9,5 cm - 60 g
a) Tiflis ? - PL p. 250 ff ?
b) Wladikafkas - PL p. 236, No. 3196

a) Please tell me how the name of the manufacturer KИK (1886-1896) is written in Latin letters.
"K.I. Kodjhyarnts"?

By the way, Emperor Nicholas II liked to dress up in a cherkeska adorned with gazyrs, although in his outfit they were just a decorative detail.

Image

Do you know anything about using gazyres made entirely of silver?

This is my idea:

Image

Regards
Silverstone

Qrt.S
contributor
Posts: 3545
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Gazyr - Газырь

Postby Qrt.S » Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:16 pm

Actually a Russian Cyrillic name can be transliterated in many ways depending on to what language it is transliterated. There are no common/international "rules". In your case we have КОДЖОЯНЦ. My suggestion would be KODGOYANTS or KODGOJANTS. It is based on how the name Fabergé is spelled in Cyrillic letters, i.e ФАБЕРЖЕ. The letter Ж creates the "problem". The Latin alphabet lacks it.
Most likely there are other, maybe better, alternatives, let's wait and see....

Please show better (bigger and sharper) photos of the marks only, thank you.

Silverstone
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:41 am
Location: Germany

Re: Gazyr - Газырь

Postby Silverstone » Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:25 pm

Thanks Qrt.S,
the Cyrillic script is indeed not easy to read.
I photographed the punches again.

a) KИK and "PL No. 3177" are better to see.
Image Image

b)
Image

Regards
Silverstone

Mart
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Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:32 pm
Location: Novosibirsk, Koltsovo

Re: Gazyr - Газырь

Postby Mart » Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:36 pm

I know the silversmith Kojayants in the city of Vladikavkaz, but he was Karapet Nazarovich. Карапет Назарович Коджаянц. "КНК".

Silverstone
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:41 am
Location: Germany

Re: Gazyr - Газырь

Postby Silverstone » Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:35 pm

Thank you Mart,
can you please specify your sources.
I am a newcomer in the forum.

May I say, that I do not agree with the name, you mentioned.
Sorry!

punch a)
KИK
There is no latin „H“ to see, only the cyrillic letter „И“.

Please use „dobble click“ to see my pictures bigger.

Qrt.S wrote:
KODGOYANTS, K. I.
Here you find the "I."

PL 3196 fits exactly to the other punch from Vladikafkas:
PL 3177 "84 + X with banner"

Regards
Silverstone

Qrt.S
contributor
Posts: 3545
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Gazyr - Газырь

Postby Qrt.S » Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:52 pm

@Silverstone

Of course you will find the letter I as well as И in the Cyrillic alphabet E.g. Belorussian and Ukrainian alphabet use I instead of И . Both are the same letter as Latin I.

Please cut and enlarge the pictures to the marks only, thank you.

Mart
contributor
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:32 pm
Location: Novosibirsk, Koltsovo

Re: Gazyr - Газырь

Postby Mart » Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:04 pm

Image
Image
There are many letters that are easy to confuse. Old stamps or they were not made very well...

Silverstone
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:41 am
Location: Germany

Re: Gazyr - Газырь

Postby Silverstone » Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:06 pm

Dear forum-members,

now I have tried to make a better foto.

Image


Please excuse me!
I can see the punch: KHK

Mart, this is the name, you have mentioned.
The hallmark on your photo is convincing.

Ort.S, you did your best, you have answered to my specification „KИK“.
I am so sorry!

I primary want to know, what these two objects in reality presents.
Now are we discussing over hallmarks.
Let us have a nice evening.
We are living on the sun-side of the world.
There are a lot of people, who do not know their names or suffer!

Kind regards
Silverstone

AG2012
contributor
Posts: 5164
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Gazyr - Газырь

Postby AG2012 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:11 pm

I primary want to know, what these two objects in reality presents.


I would also opt for scroll containers, i.e. amulet, taweez (if they can be worn attached to chains).
(Having in mind diversity of religious affiliation in the region).
Regards

Silverstone
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:41 am
Location: Germany

Re: Gazyr - Газырь

Postby Silverstone » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:47 pm

Thank you very much AG 2012,
this is a valid answer!

Taweez/Ta'wiz, worn by some Muslims/non-Muslims, is a medallion containing a piece of paper with verses from the Koran or other Islamic prayers.
Some Muslims wear it around their necks to protect themselves from harm.

Regards
Silverstone

Silverstone
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:41 am
Location: Germany

Re: Gazyr - Газырь

Postby Silverstone » Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:22 pm

Dear members,

sorry, I've just noticed, that four fotos in my article do not longer exist.
I am a newcomer in the forum and and a greenhorn what concerns the computer-world.
Here are the missing fotos:

Image
Image
Image

Image

Regards
Silverstone


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