to recognize the country of manufacture and the master of this ink set

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
Denis_S
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:42 am

to recognize the country of manufacture and the master of this ink set

Postby Denis_S » Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:29 am

Hello dear friends, can somebody help me to recognize the country of manufacture and the master of this ink device?
I see the garve in Russian on it, I understand its meaning, but I am definitely sure that the product was not made in
the Russian Empire, but was made somewhere in Europe, perhaps in France or Germany?

Image
Image
Image

AG2012
contributor
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Re: to recognize the country of manufacture and the master of this ink set

Postby AG2012 » Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:34 am

Hi,
Possibly Scandinavian.The imperial monogram looks like Elizabeth Petrovna (Russian: Елизаве́та (Елисаве́та) Петро́вна).
Engraved weight is about the period she ruled.
Hopefully, everything here is authentic. One never knows these days.
Regards

Image

oel
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Location: The Netherlands

Re: to recognize the country of manufacture and the master of this ink set

Postby oel » Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:21 pm

For the ET mark see:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=47014&p=140002&hilit=ET+etranger#p140002


ET, a French warning mark that indicated that the item was below minimum French fineness standards.The ET mark comes from the first two letters of the French word for foreign- etranger. First used only in Paris 1864 on items imported from non-treaty countries, the ET mark was extended for use by all regional assay offices in 1893, and is still in use. After 1994, the meaning of the ET mark changed. While it was still a warning indicating an item was below standard, the ET mark now served two other functions. The first of these is to indicate an estate item that is to be sold at public auction or by municipal credit union that is acting as a pawn service. Secondly, the markmay applied to items that have an artistic or curiosity value, but because of teir lower standard of fineness, do not warrant a full quarantee mark.


Source Hallmark Research Institute World Hallmarks- Vol.1-Europe
Peter.

AG2012
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Re: to recognize the country of manufacture and the master of this ink set

Postby AG2012 » Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:15 pm

The result of my calculation of weight is 657 g.
You mentioned you understand the engraving, what result did you get ?
Regards

Juke*
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:55 am

Re: to recognize the country of manufacture and the master of this ink set

Postby Juke* » Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:13 pm

Hi,

I have a high reservation of any royal provenience. If there is no information of the provenience then the monogram with the crown is a later addition to add value to the item (russification). The quality of the ink set is low including the question if the ink stand is even of silver purity. I would believe it to be somewhere from northern Europe, most likely German. I would estimate the set to be more likely from the late 19th or early 20th century.

Regards,
Juke

Denis_S
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:42 am

Re: to recognize the country of manufacture and the master of this ink set

Postby Denis_S » Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:33 am

AG2012 wrote:Hi,
Possibly Scandinavian.The imperial monogram looks like Elizabeth Petrovna (Russian: Елизаве́та (Елисаве́та) Петро́вна).
Engraved weight is about the period she ruled.
Hopefully, everything here is authentic. One never knows these days.
Regards

Image


Thank you for your participation, yes, I knew that this was the monogram of Elizaveta Petrovna, but in order to somehow understand whether this inkwell really has anything to do with her, I wanted to establish a workshop, the years of work of this workshop, I did not immediately write about it so as not to arouse attention in people who would begin to claim that the monogram was applied later. Thank you again for your attention to my publication.

Denis_S
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:42 am

Re: to recognize the country of manufacture and the master of this ink set

Postby Denis_S » Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:37 am

oel wrote:For the ET mark see:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=47014&p=140002&hilit=ET+etranger#p140002


ET, a French warning mark that indicated that the item was below minimum French fineness standards.The ET mark comes from the first two letters of the French word for foreign- etranger. First used only in Paris 1864 on items imported from non-treaty countries, the ET mark was extended for use by all regional assay offices in 1893, and is still in use. After 1994, the meaning of the ET mark changed. While it was still a warning indicating an item was below standard, the ET mark now served two other functions. The first of these is to indicate an estate item that is to be sold at public auction or by municipal credit union that is acting as a pawn service. Secondly, the markmay applied to items that have an artistic or curiosity value, but because of teir lower standard of fineness, do not warrant a full quarantee mark.


Source Hallmark Research Institute World Hallmarks- Vol.1-Europe
Peter.


Dear friend, thank you so much for your help, indeed it looks like our ETs have a lot in common with the ETs you are writing about. Of course, I would like to hear that this is ET - this is the stigma of a French master of the middle of the 18th century))) but now I understand that this is not so. But at the same time, this stigma does not unequivocally indicate that this thing could not have been made in the middle of the 18th century.

Denis_S
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:42 am

Re: to recognize the country of manufacture and the master of this ink set

Postby Denis_S » Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:40 am

Juke* wrote:Hi,

I have a high reservation of any royal provenience. If there is no information of the provenience then the monogram with the crown is a later addition to add value to the item (russification). The quality of the ink set is low including the question if the ink stand is even of silver purity. I would believe it to be somewhere from northern Europe, most likely German. I would estimate the set to be more likely from the late 19th or early 20th century.

Regards,
Juke

I understand your words, yes, this thing has no worthy provenance, but also no worthy one, it was bought in this form at the price of scrap silver. Regarding the quality of the work, I would raise you, look at what Russian silver items of the late 18th century look like ...


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