silver icon mark

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
mik71
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:09 am

silver icon mark

Postby mik71 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:29 pm

Hi, I would like your help for a doubt about one of my icons.
on the riza in the central part there is the assayer's mark Ivan Lebedkin , round in shape, only with the head and small initials on the "neck" IL .
while 84 is on its own in a separate mark.
I read that this brand has been in use for a short time.
Instead in the lower part on the folded edge , there is the oval mark with the head, 84 and the initials IL.
why is the old round mark and the new oval on the same riza?
Thanks for your help

dognose
Site Admin
Posts: 43673
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:53 pm
Location: England

Re: silver icon mark

Postby dognose » Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:34 pm

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

Your question cannot be answered without the required images.

The below should help you:

How to Add Images

Posting Requirements

https://postimages.org (choose 'Share', then copy the 'Hotlink for forums' code) is recommended. Do not use Photobucket or Dropbox.

Ensure your images are embedded. Do not post links. Remember to use the 'Preview' button before submitting your post.

For more information see:

http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 82#p103282

Give some time to creating your posts and we'll give some time to researching and answering them.

Trev.

mik71
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:09 am

Re: silver icon mark

Postby mik71 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:42 pm

sorry, as soon as available, I send the photos. thank you

mik71
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:09 am

Re: silver icon mark

Postby mik71 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:03 pm

Hi, here are the photos of the marks , what do you think?
a photo is not clear .. now I don't have the icon with me for another photo
Thank you
Image
Image
Image

AG2012
contributor
Posts: 4070
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: silver icon mark

Postby AG2012 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:35 pm

Hi,
H.T. (with dotts) for Nikolai Tarabrov Николай Тарабров
Round - circular mark (identity mark) for decorative and secondary parts of products, in conjunction with a hallmark and with a complex mark.
Клеймо круглое (знак удостоверения) для украшений и второстепенных частей изделий, в совокупности с клеймом-пробой и при сложном клейме


This circular mark is seen on oklad by H.T.
Not uncommon in complex items.
Show us better close up when possible.

Regards

mik71
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:09 am

Re: silver icon mark

Postby mik71 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:50 am

AG2012 wrote:Hi,
H.T. (with dotts) for Nikolai Tarabrov Николай Тарабров
Round - circular mark (identity mark) for decorative and secondary parts of products, in conjunction with a hallmark and with a complex mark.
Клеймо круглое (знак удостоверения) для украшений и второстепенных частей изделий, в совокупности с клеймом-пробой и при сложном клейме


This circular mark is seen on oklad by H.T.
Not uncommon in complex items.
Show us better close up when possible.

Regards

Thank you very much. i will send better photos

mik71
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:09 am

Re: silver icon mark

Postby mik71 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:47 am

Hi, I would like to ask a question: the mark on the enamels of an icon it was mandatory for the silversmith ?
in an original icon it is possible to have unmarked enamels ?
thanks

AG2012
contributor
Posts: 4070
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: silver icon mark

Postby AG2012 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:03 am

Hi,
Crown, wreath of the icon frame (венец, от оклада иконы) IS usually marked,smaller enamelled parts are not always and not all marked.
Regards

mik71
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:09 am

Re: silver icon mark

Postby mik71 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:49 am

AG2012 wrote:Hi,
Crown, wreath of the icon frame (венец, от оклада иконы) IS usually marked,smaller enamelled parts are not always and not all marked.
Regards

Thank you.
A last question : the assayer also controlled these enamelled parts or just the purity of silver of the riza ?

Juke*
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:55 am

Re: silver icon mark

Postby Juke* » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:30 am

Hi!

I would be quite cautious on the authenticity of the icon/oklad as there are some disturbing issues.

As commented better photos would be needed of the marks but already the marks in the picture are not what I would expect.

Also I would recommend you to take off the oklad from the icon and check if there is a whole painting underneath or just the faces, if the painting looks old with typical cracks and other damages etc. Does the fabric look old or more modern.

Regards,
Juke


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