4, Davies Street, Berkeley Square, London
Christopher Sewell - London - 1887
Late Shepherd.
Established in 1824.
Trev.
Some London Advertisements and Information
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
CHRISTOPHER SEWELL
4, Davies Street, Berkeley Square, London
Christopher Sewell - London - 1887
Late Shepherd.
Established in 1824.
Trev.
4, Davies Street, Berkeley Square, London
Christopher Sewell - London - 1887
Late Shepherd.
Established in 1824.
Trev.
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
HENRY SPILLING
Great Russell Street, Bloomsbury, London
A robbery on the American plan of tying up the door and smashing the shop window was perpetrated last month, on Mr. Henry Spilling, goldsmith and jeweller, of Great Russell Street, Bloomsbury. Joseph Buxton, the thief, who is stated to be an American, made the mistake of using too slight a cord in his preliminary operation, so that the assistant succeeded in forcing open the door and catching the prisoner, who got twelve months' "hard.''
Source: The Watchmaker, Jeweller and Silversmith - 1st March 1889
Trev.
Great Russell Street, Bloomsbury, London
A robbery on the American plan of tying up the door and smashing the shop window was perpetrated last month, on Mr. Henry Spilling, goldsmith and jeweller, of Great Russell Street, Bloomsbury. Joseph Buxton, the thief, who is stated to be an American, made the mistake of using too slight a cord in his preliminary operation, so that the assistant succeeded in forcing open the door and catching the prisoner, who got twelve months' "hard.''
Source: The Watchmaker, Jeweller and Silversmith - 1st March 1889
Trev.
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
JOHN BROWNING
63, Strand, London
John Browning - London - 1893
John Browning - London - 1894
Trev.
63, Strand, London
John Browning - London - 1893
John Browning - London - 1894
Trev.
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
WILLIAM FREDERICK WARR
Barnwell Road, Brixton, London
Re W. F. Warr. — At the London Bankruptcy Court an application was made to Mr. Registrar Linklator for the order of discharge of William Frederick Warr, described as a jeweller and watchmaker, of Barnwell Road, Brixton. The accounts showed liabilities of £694 17s. lid., nearly the whole of which is due to Birmingham creditors. Mr. Aldridge presented the Official Receiver's report, which set forth that the estate would probably realise £117, and that a dividend of about Is. 4d. in the pound would be declared. The bankrupt commenced business in July, 1883, and, having no capital at the time, was started by the wholesale houses, who, he states, offered to give him unlimited credit. His business was principally on the "tally " system, and it was his custom to entrust goods to travellers, who sold them on credit to domestic servants, mechanics, and people in poor circumstances. The failure was attributed to losses through alleged defalcations by travellers, which he put at several hundreds of pounds, to a loss of £50 by a burglary on his premises, to bad debts, and badness of trade, there was only one offence charged by the official receiver- — viz., that of insufficient book- keeping within the three years immediately preceding the bankruptcy. .Mr. .Myers attended the sitting on behalf of the trustee, and Mr. Le Voi represented the bankrupt. After hearing the latter in support of the application, the learned registrar decided to suspend the order of dis- charge for nine months. Order accordingly.
Source: The Watchmaker, Jeweller and Silversmith - 1st July 1889
Trev.
Barnwell Road, Brixton, London
Re W. F. Warr. — At the London Bankruptcy Court an application was made to Mr. Registrar Linklator for the order of discharge of William Frederick Warr, described as a jeweller and watchmaker, of Barnwell Road, Brixton. The accounts showed liabilities of £694 17s. lid., nearly the whole of which is due to Birmingham creditors. Mr. Aldridge presented the Official Receiver's report, which set forth that the estate would probably realise £117, and that a dividend of about Is. 4d. in the pound would be declared. The bankrupt commenced business in July, 1883, and, having no capital at the time, was started by the wholesale houses, who, he states, offered to give him unlimited credit. His business was principally on the "tally " system, and it was his custom to entrust goods to travellers, who sold them on credit to domestic servants, mechanics, and people in poor circumstances. The failure was attributed to losses through alleged defalcations by travellers, which he put at several hundreds of pounds, to a loss of £50 by a burglary on his premises, to bad debts, and badness of trade, there was only one offence charged by the official receiver- — viz., that of insufficient book- keeping within the three years immediately preceding the bankruptcy. .Mr. .Myers attended the sitting on behalf of the trustee, and Mr. Le Voi represented the bankrupt. After hearing the latter in support of the application, the learned registrar decided to suspend the order of dis- charge for nine months. Order accordingly.
Source: The Watchmaker, Jeweller and Silversmith - 1st July 1889
Trev.
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
ALEC VINCENT & Co.
London
The novelty cigarette holders recently exhibited here by Alec Vincent & Co., London, and shortly to be introduced on the American market, made their appearance at certain dance parties this week-end and created a mild sensation. The new holder has a small spike at one end in which is a tiny hole. The cigarette is “spiked” onto this aluminum peg and automatically goes out when burned down to the end. The holder itself cannot be even scorched. The freeness of the draw is noticeable and the cigarette cannot fall off. The holders of this type now being handled by jewelers are in a wide range of colors and material. The cheapest are in erinoid. Many are of ivory brightened by bands of batik enamel. Others are of amber, tortoise shell and the like. There are gold and silver holders and for those requiring something exclusive very fine articles circled with diamonds and rubies. But they all have the protruding aluminum peg onto which the cigarette is spiked. The manufacturers are paying considerable attention to colorings the plan being to interest women smokers by producing every possible color in these holders in order that they may harmonize with any tint of dress.
Source: The Jewelers' Circular - 5th August 1925
Trev.
London
The novelty cigarette holders recently exhibited here by Alec Vincent & Co., London, and shortly to be introduced on the American market, made their appearance at certain dance parties this week-end and created a mild sensation. The new holder has a small spike at one end in which is a tiny hole. The cigarette is “spiked” onto this aluminum peg and automatically goes out when burned down to the end. The holder itself cannot be even scorched. The freeness of the draw is noticeable and the cigarette cannot fall off. The holders of this type now being handled by jewelers are in a wide range of colors and material. The cheapest are in erinoid. Many are of ivory brightened by bands of batik enamel. Others are of amber, tortoise shell and the like. There are gold and silver holders and for those requiring something exclusive very fine articles circled with diamonds and rubies. But they all have the protruding aluminum peg onto which the cigarette is spiked. The manufacturers are paying considerable attention to colorings the plan being to interest women smokers by producing every possible color in these holders in order that they may harmonize with any tint of dress.
Source: The Jewelers' Circular - 5th August 1925
Trev.
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
PAM Co.
10, Sherwood Street, London
PAM Co. - London - 1922
Trev.
10, Sherwood Street, London
PAM Co. - London - 1922
Trev.
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
GEOFFREY HARDING
Steventon, Oxfordshire
Geoffrey Harding - Steventon, Oxon. - 1990
See: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=30091&p=111546&hil ... ng#p111546
Trev.
Steventon, Oxfordshire
Geoffrey Harding - Steventon, Oxon. - 1990
See: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=30091&p=111546&hil ... ng#p111546
Trev.
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
JOHN JAMES IVINGS
1, Richmond Buildings, Dean Street, Soho, London
An example of the mark of John James Ivings:
J·I - London - 1851
Member silvermakersmarks wrote:
In the 1851 census both John Harris and John Ivings are listed at 1 Richmond Buildings. Harris is the head of the household and is described as "Goldsmith (Journeyman)" and Ivings (aged 19) is a "Goldsmith's Apprentice". It would appear that the registration of Ivings must have been some sort of figurehead for Harris's business. Ivings died in January 1852 and his burial is recorded in Norwood Cemetery on 27 Jan 1852.
See: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=58691
Trev.
1, Richmond Buildings, Dean Street, Soho, London
An example of the mark of John James Ivings:
J·I - London - 1851
Member silvermakersmarks wrote:
In the 1851 census both John Harris and John Ivings are listed at 1 Richmond Buildings. Harris is the head of the household and is described as "Goldsmith (Journeyman)" and Ivings (aged 19) is a "Goldsmith's Apprentice". It would appear that the registration of Ivings must have been some sort of figurehead for Harris's business. Ivings died in January 1852 and his burial is recorded in Norwood Cemetery on 27 Jan 1852.
See: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=58691
Trev.
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
F.W. MACKINNEY
Islington, later, 156, High Street, Notting Hill, London
F.W. Mackinney - London - 1899
Established in 1846.
Society of Chemist-Opticians
During the evening Mr. F. W. Mackinney read a paper entitled 'A Retrospect and a Forecast' which was of an autobiographical nature. Mr. Mackinney started in business forty-five years ago as a watchmaker and jeweller, but the business of spectacle-supplying was soon forced upon him by the inquiries of customers, and, after following for a short time the common practice of allowing customers to suit themselves from a drawerful of spectacles, he commenced sight-testing by purchasing one of the earliest optometers, marked in inches for plus lenses from six to forty-eight and in arbitrary numbers from two to fourteen for minus lenses. The instrument was passed round for inspection. Though useless for myopia, it gave some idea of the power required by the aged. Later, he added Broham's refraction test and a proper trial-case to his appliances, and was scientifically testing sight when the customer of the stores and the average dealer was still suiting himself from a drawerful of spectacles. In the early days there was no sight-testing instruction obtainable, and, with the exception of some lectures by Professor Silvanus Thompson in 1889, Mr. Mackinney had to teach himself from actual practice until he took the course of instruction for the first S.M.C. examination in 1898. Turning to his forecast, Mr. Mackinney said that the interests of the public require that ophthalmic opticians should, like chemists, have legal recognition, which he predicted will ultimately be accorded. Any Act passed by Parliament will admit all in actual business. The body entrusted with future examinations for optical qualification should be sufficiently detached from trade interests to command public confidence, and should also be the governing body. Such a body, he thought, was the Court of the Spectacle-makers' Company. The optician of the early future will far surpass the optician of to-day. Mr. Mackinney prescribed a curriculum at a recognised college and, if permitted, a short hospital training for the candidate, so that he may better recognise cases needing the surgeon's aid. The optician will then, he thought, in most cases be an optician only. Mr. Mackinney concluded his remarks with some trading suggestions drawn from experience. To the beginner with small capital the ability to make or repair the articles of his trade may make the difference between success and failure. If a shop be taken on a repairing lease, a sinking-fund insurance policy is a good means of covering the repairing liability on expiration of the lease. Insurances to cover other liabilities, such as plate-glass and employer's liability, if skilled assistants be employed, are strongly to be recommended. Discounts obtained by prompt payments will probably pay the rates. For advertising, Mr. Mackinney has found circulars to pay best, but it is necessary to have something definite to advertise.
Mr. Julius Cæsar proposed, and Mr. J. Harcombe Cuff seconded, a vote of thanks to the lecturer, which was carried with considerable applause.
Source: The Chemist and Druggist - 24th November 1906
Trev.
Islington, later, 156, High Street, Notting Hill, London
F.W. Mackinney - London - 1899
Established in 1846.
Society of Chemist-Opticians
During the evening Mr. F. W. Mackinney read a paper entitled 'A Retrospect and a Forecast' which was of an autobiographical nature. Mr. Mackinney started in business forty-five years ago as a watchmaker and jeweller, but the business of spectacle-supplying was soon forced upon him by the inquiries of customers, and, after following for a short time the common practice of allowing customers to suit themselves from a drawerful of spectacles, he commenced sight-testing by purchasing one of the earliest optometers, marked in inches for plus lenses from six to forty-eight and in arbitrary numbers from two to fourteen for minus lenses. The instrument was passed round for inspection. Though useless for myopia, it gave some idea of the power required by the aged. Later, he added Broham's refraction test and a proper trial-case to his appliances, and was scientifically testing sight when the customer of the stores and the average dealer was still suiting himself from a drawerful of spectacles. In the early days there was no sight-testing instruction obtainable, and, with the exception of some lectures by Professor Silvanus Thompson in 1889, Mr. Mackinney had to teach himself from actual practice until he took the course of instruction for the first S.M.C. examination in 1898. Turning to his forecast, Mr. Mackinney said that the interests of the public require that ophthalmic opticians should, like chemists, have legal recognition, which he predicted will ultimately be accorded. Any Act passed by Parliament will admit all in actual business. The body entrusted with future examinations for optical qualification should be sufficiently detached from trade interests to command public confidence, and should also be the governing body. Such a body, he thought, was the Court of the Spectacle-makers' Company. The optician of the early future will far surpass the optician of to-day. Mr. Mackinney prescribed a curriculum at a recognised college and, if permitted, a short hospital training for the candidate, so that he may better recognise cases needing the surgeon's aid. The optician will then, he thought, in most cases be an optician only. Mr. Mackinney concluded his remarks with some trading suggestions drawn from experience. To the beginner with small capital the ability to make or repair the articles of his trade may make the difference between success and failure. If a shop be taken on a repairing lease, a sinking-fund insurance policy is a good means of covering the repairing liability on expiration of the lease. Insurances to cover other liabilities, such as plate-glass and employer's liability, if skilled assistants be employed, are strongly to be recommended. Discounts obtained by prompt payments will probably pay the rates. For advertising, Mr. Mackinney has found circulars to pay best, but it is necessary to have something definite to advertise.
Mr. Julius Cæsar proposed, and Mr. J. Harcombe Cuff seconded, a vote of thanks to the lecturer, which was carried with considerable applause.
Source: The Chemist and Druggist - 24th November 1906
Trev.
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
G.A. NORRIS
32, High Street, Notting Hill Gate, London
G.A. Norris - London - 1899
Established in c.1850.
In the Matter of a Deed of Assignment for the benefit of Creditors, dated the 17th day of August, 1908, executed by HERBERT GRAHAM NORRIS (trading as " G. A. Norris "), of 32, High-street, Notting Hill Gate, N., Watchmaker and Jeweller.
The creditors of the above named Herbert Graham Norris, who have not already sent in their claims, are required, on or before the 31st day of October, 1908, to send in their names and addresses, and the particulars of their debts or claims, to William Nicholson, of 12, Wood-street, in the city of London,- Incorporated Accountant, the Trustee under the said deed, or in default thereof they will be excluded from the benefit of the Dividend proposed to be declared.—Dated this 2nd day of October, 1908.
WILLIAM NICHOLSON (of the firm of Beecroft, Sons, and Nicholson), 12, Wood-street, London, E.C., Trustee.
Source: The London Gazette - 9th October 1908
G.A. Norris appears in the 1881 English Census as born at Paddington Kensington in 1830. He is head of the household at 32, Notting Hill High Street, Kensington and aged 51 years at the time of the census.
Trev.
32, High Street, Notting Hill Gate, London
G.A. Norris - London - 1899
Established in c.1850.
In the Matter of a Deed of Assignment for the benefit of Creditors, dated the 17th day of August, 1908, executed by HERBERT GRAHAM NORRIS (trading as " G. A. Norris "), of 32, High-street, Notting Hill Gate, N., Watchmaker and Jeweller.
The creditors of the above named Herbert Graham Norris, who have not already sent in their claims, are required, on or before the 31st day of October, 1908, to send in their names and addresses, and the particulars of their debts or claims, to William Nicholson, of 12, Wood-street, in the city of London,- Incorporated Accountant, the Trustee under the said deed, or in default thereof they will be excluded from the benefit of the Dividend proposed to be declared.—Dated this 2nd day of October, 1908.
WILLIAM NICHOLSON (of the firm of Beecroft, Sons, and Nicholson), 12, Wood-street, London, E.C., Trustee.
Source: The London Gazette - 9th October 1908
G.A. Norris appears in the 1881 English Census as born at Paddington Kensington in 1830. He is head of the household at 32, Notting Hill High Street, Kensington and aged 51 years at the time of the census.
Trev.
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
BARNETT SCHAVERIEN - B. SCHAVERIEN & Co.
24a, later, 34, Hatton Garden, London
THE BANKRUPTCY ACT, 1914
RECEIVING ORDERS
Barnett Schaverien (lately trading as B. Schaverien & Co.), 34 Hatton Garden, E.C., and residing at 22 Belgrade Road, Stoke Newington, N., wholesale manufacturing jeweller.
Source: The Edinburgh Gazette - 10th January 1922
A remand has been ordered in the case of a jeweler of North London, who is facing a charge of alleged coining. Barnet Schaverien, aged 31, was originally charged with obtaining credit without disclosing the fact that he was an undischarged bankrupt. The coming charges came later. Detectives said they found in his possession a mold for counterfeiting current coins and 16 pieces of counterfeit coin. In a safe in a back room detectives said that a counterfeit half-crown and 12 florins in course of manufacture were discovered.
Source: The Jewelers' Circular - 14th October 1925
APPLICATIONS FOR DISCHARGE
SCHAVERIEN, Barnett, lately trading as B. Schaverien & Co., 34, Hatton Garden, E.C., WHOLESALE MANUFACTURING JEWELLER, and residing at 22, Belgrade Road, Stoke Newington, N. Court — HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE No. of Matter—1548 of 1921. Last Day for Receiving Proofs—Aug. 12, 1944. Name
of Trustee and - Address—West, Leslie Arthur, Bankruptcy Buildings, Carey Street, London, W.C.2.
Source: The London Gazette - 28th July 1944
Barnett Schaverien b. (Whitechapel, London) 13-7-1894 - d. (Brighton) ?-1-1957.
Barnett Schaverien entered his mark, 'B.S' contained within an oblong punch, with the London Assay Office on the 20th February 1913.
Trev.
24a, later, 34, Hatton Garden, London
THE BANKRUPTCY ACT, 1914
RECEIVING ORDERS
Barnett Schaverien (lately trading as B. Schaverien & Co.), 34 Hatton Garden, E.C., and residing at 22 Belgrade Road, Stoke Newington, N., wholesale manufacturing jeweller.
Source: The Edinburgh Gazette - 10th January 1922
A remand has been ordered in the case of a jeweler of North London, who is facing a charge of alleged coining. Barnet Schaverien, aged 31, was originally charged with obtaining credit without disclosing the fact that he was an undischarged bankrupt. The coming charges came later. Detectives said they found in his possession a mold for counterfeiting current coins and 16 pieces of counterfeit coin. In a safe in a back room detectives said that a counterfeit half-crown and 12 florins in course of manufacture were discovered.
Source: The Jewelers' Circular - 14th October 1925
APPLICATIONS FOR DISCHARGE
SCHAVERIEN, Barnett, lately trading as B. Schaverien & Co., 34, Hatton Garden, E.C., WHOLESALE MANUFACTURING JEWELLER, and residing at 22, Belgrade Road, Stoke Newington, N. Court — HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE No. of Matter—1548 of 1921. Last Day for Receiving Proofs—Aug. 12, 1944. Name
of Trustee and - Address—West, Leslie Arthur, Bankruptcy Buildings, Carey Street, London, W.C.2.
Source: The London Gazette - 28th July 1944
Barnett Schaverien b. (Whitechapel, London) 13-7-1894 - d. (Brighton) ?-1-1957.
Barnett Schaverien entered his mark, 'B.S' contained within an oblong punch, with the London Assay Office on the 20th February 1913.
Trev.
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
CYPRUS JEWELLERY Co.
63, St. Paul's Churchyard, London
Cyprus Jewellery Co. - London - 1881
Trev.
63, St. Paul's Churchyard, London
Cyprus Jewellery Co. - London - 1881
Trev.
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
FRANCIS LUDLOW HOLT
London
During an action for damages brought by Francis Ludlow Holt, of West London, a pearl merchant, it was stated that Mr. Holt was, before his accident, the finest all-round athlete the world had ever seen. He had captained many teams of the best cricketers here, his counsel said, hunted and shot wild game in foreign countries, and was one of the best shots and billiards player the world had seen. Today, said counsel, the pearl merchant cannot walk 100 yards without becoming paralyzed. He is suing the Belsize London Agency, automobile engineers, whom, he alleges, collided with his taxi in Piccadilly in 1920, smashing his skull against the roof of the car. The other vehicle was a private car driven by an employe of the defendant company.
Source: The Jewelers' Circular - 12th December 1923
The incident occurred on the 21st June 1920.
Trev.
London
During an action for damages brought by Francis Ludlow Holt, of West London, a pearl merchant, it was stated that Mr. Holt was, before his accident, the finest all-round athlete the world had ever seen. He had captained many teams of the best cricketers here, his counsel said, hunted and shot wild game in foreign countries, and was one of the best shots and billiards player the world had seen. Today, said counsel, the pearl merchant cannot walk 100 yards without becoming paralyzed. He is suing the Belsize London Agency, automobile engineers, whom, he alleges, collided with his taxi in Piccadilly in 1920, smashing his skull against the roof of the car. The other vehicle was a private car driven by an employe of the defendant company.
Source: The Jewelers' Circular - 12th December 1923
The incident occurred on the 21st June 1920.
Trev.
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
THE PARAMOUNT WATCH Co.
327, Oxford Street, London
The Paramount Watch Co. - London - 1922
Trev.
327, Oxford Street, London
The Paramount Watch Co. - London - 1922
Trev.
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
J.C. SYMONDS & Co.
Baldwin’s Gardens, Gray’s Inn Lane, London
PARTNERSHIPS DISSOLVED
J. C. Symonds and Co. Baldwin’s gardens, Gray’s inn lane, silversmiths; so far as regards R. M. Barrymore.
Source: The Examiner - 9th June 1839
Trev.
Baldwin’s Gardens, Gray’s Inn Lane, London
PARTNERSHIPS DISSOLVED
J. C. Symonds and Co. Baldwin’s gardens, Gray’s inn lane, silversmiths; so far as regards R. M. Barrymore.
Source: The Examiner - 9th June 1839
Trev.
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
T.& J. PERRY
224, later, 124, Regent Street, London
T. & J. Perry - London - 1916
Established in 1828.
Noted at 124, Regent Street, London in 1961.
Trev.
224, later, 124, Regent Street, London
T. & J. Perry - London - 1916
Established in 1828.
Noted at 124, Regent Street, London in 1961.
Trev.
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
HENRI ELIASCHEFF
49, Carnaby Street, Regent Street, London
A jeweler trading under the name of Henri Eliaschaff was found dead in his office off Regent St. this week. The police, upon being called to the premises, found escaping gas. It is believed the jeweler was overcome by the fumes.
Source: The Jewelers' Circular - 5th December 1929
Henri Eliascheff died on the 13th November 1929, He was aged 42 years. He registered his marks with the London Assay Office.
Trev.
49, Carnaby Street, Regent Street, London
A jeweler trading under the name of Henri Eliaschaff was found dead in his office off Regent St. this week. The police, upon being called to the premises, found escaping gas. It is believed the jeweler was overcome by the fumes.
Source: The Jewelers' Circular - 5th December 1929
Henri Eliascheff died on the 13th November 1929, He was aged 42 years. He registered his marks with the London Assay Office.
Trev.
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
E.L. GLYDE Ltd.
Regency House, Warwick Street, London
Source: Daily Telegraph - 22nd March 1916
Trev.
Regency House, Warwick Street, London
Source: Daily Telegraph - 22nd March 1916
Trev.
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
JOHN VANNER
24, Castle Street, Houndsditch, London
J. Vanner - London - 1883
Successor to Youard & Co.
Patentee of the 'ERA' tankard.
John Vanner was sentenced to five years penal servitude at the Old Bailey in 1883. See: https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse. ... #highlight
and: https://www.digitalpanopticon.org/life? ... 7-18830108
Trev.
24, Castle Street, Houndsditch, London
J. Vanner - London - 1883
Successor to Youard & Co.
Patentee of the 'ERA' tankard.
John Vanner was sentenced to five years penal servitude at the Old Bailey in 1883. See: https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse. ... #highlight
and: https://www.digitalpanopticon.org/life? ... 7-18830108
Trev.
Re: Some London Advertisements and Information
WILHELM SCHULLER (William Christian Schuller)
36, Poland Street, Oxford Street, and Soho Bazaar, London
W. Schuller - London - 1883
See: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=30091&p=129707&hil ... er#p129707
Trev.
36, Poland Street, Oxford Street, and Soho Bazaar, London
W. Schuller - London - 1883
See: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=30091&p=129707&hil ... er#p129707
Trev.