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Hello all

As a fruit of knowledge I’ve just collected, what ellabee mention by: »Gale patent on roller dies expired in 1840«

Source (Pattern topic’s): viewtopic.php?p=45897#45897

Until yet I don’t know details on the real history of American flatware production methods.

Here in short a remark on the German situation:

In 1838 the Munich Goldsmith and Engraver — Wiemer — gave an order to Krupp’s steel foundry and mechanical workshop, to make a by him invented machine; on base of his own construction drawings.



Gold roller’s — Krupp’s main product range in the 1830’s and 1840’s

Alfred Krupp was in same time on visit in England — in a habit like “landed gentry” with spurs in silver. Today you would name this »industrial espionage« - England of that time was Europe’s »fore runner«.

Finish of Wiemer’s order was withheld until Alfred was informed and gave instructions to his younger brother Hermann (became later co-owner, and for final owner of being later baptized »Berndorfer«), and 18 year old brother Friedrich.

In between, Wiemer has got his machinery and tools — set sail to Mexico.

In Krupp’s workshop especially lad Friedrich, technically be gifted, made some refining on their own copy. And Alfred was highly impressed from this new product range.



A Spoon’s roll - Krupp’s main product from 1838 on to …

1843 in Vienna, Alfred found an investor — Alexander Schoeller. »Berndorf« start up with 50 workers.

Sale of Alfred’s »Invention« was going on: Mayerhofer & Klinkosch, for cutlery in silver; to a Russian Investor (of Russian Nobility); Techelstein in St. Petersburg remained a while a project only. He has sale also to Christofle; and the English Patent to Elkington, Mason & Co.

Later also Vollgold in Berlin were Krupp’s client — but the Prussian Government refused (correct!) any Patent rights.

John Gorham made in 1852 his »Educational Trip« in Europe.

Now it is maybe understood why from at least 1850 on cutlery was coming more and more machine produced.

If the American Patent for Gale’s roller dies already expired in 1840 — what happened then there in America?

Now it seems to me, that cutlery to be produced in grand scale by »Hand wrought« has ended before Guild’s declined — at least in Germany.

Of course, confusing dates and details must be researched before fixed results could be presented.

I hope that a student in History of Techniques would let run the ball.

Kind regards silverport
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One early predecessor to the roller die would have been the fly press, in use as early as the mid-18th century.

Fly Press.–A tool consisting of a cast-iron frame, in which a screw with a quick thread works in a nut. The fall and rise is operated by hand by means of weighted handles. The free end of the screw is fitted to carry removable tools with which the workman can pierce or emboss the metal at will.

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A nice little description of the roller die process as used in America in the mid 1850's. It is excerpted from "The Journal of the Society of Arts, Volume 2", Society of Arts (Great Britain), 1854

Messrs. Conrad, Bard, and Son, of Philadelphia, use a machine for the manufacture of spoons and forks which is thus described: " Two circular dies or rollers are sunk with forms of the articles to be rolled out. These are usually spoons of two sizes, a fork, and the side of a knife-handle. As the intaglio of one die is accurately adjusted to, and agrees with that of the other, one forming the obverse and the other the reverse of the pattern, both sides of the article are perfected at once, and the rollers accomplish the work of a stamp press in a much more effective and economical manner. The rollers are about 5 inches in diameter, and are of course manufactured of the best steel, and case-hardened. Being set to the thickness of the articles required, and that of the sheet metal from which they are to be made, the perfect passage of the pieces through the rollers is secured by a series of notches sunk in the margin of each figure upon the die, the impression of these being in the superfluous metal surrounding the work when delivered from the machine. This has to be cut off, and is effected by a circular saw, the prongs of the fork being cut. in a similar manner. It is an ingenious and useful invention as applied to light articles in silver, taking up a small amount of space in a workshop, and doing a much larger amount of work than a stamp press."

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Below is illustrated the American roller die that was patented by William Gale in 1824. This image detail is from an 1877 issue of "Scientific American". The roller die succeeded the drop stamp (basically a monumetal precision hammer mounted with a pattern die). Use of the drop stamp continues to the present time for many other silversmithing applications outside of flatware patterns.

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Hello all

Thank you for this informative picture.

In between I’ve got some more details: When Elkington, Mason & Co. has got from Krupp his first cutlery roller dies?

The first installation was delivered in 1851 before London World Exhibition has start. Krupp’s first foreman Hagewiesche has installed. He supervised all the first productions; under auspicious of Mr. Josiah Mason.

Mr. Mason scrutinized on and on every produced detail by a loupe; and spouted always »better and better«. So, often Hagewiesche was afraid that he must quit the job.

Alfred Krupp waited in London — because he had made a »price fixed« offer; and understood that Mason only scrutinized for reason to get a huge discount. Alfred’s commercial experience in his professional beginnings was always that he was too cheap — so he remained unalterable.

For final Elkington, Mason & Co. signed the »price fixed« contract: 4,000 Pound Sterling for the installed machinery — and 4,000 Pound Sterling for the Patent licence in England.

In 1851 has Elkington, Mason & Co. started her rolled die’s cutlery production.

In that time Elkington, Mason & Co. was on the globe the ultimate factory for plated cutlery:

25 May 1843 Patent for Electro Plating. 1,490 Pound Sterling they paid to William Siemens for a Patent to get a smoother surface in Electro Plating. Their inscription cost there fore was 110 Pound Sterling.

1865 Josiah Mason leaved the partnership of this prosperous company; outgrown to this top by his financial assistances.

Kind regards silverport
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Not rolling dies, but here are the details of Jonathan Hayne's earlier 1833 Patent Press.


STAMPING OF METALS The following-ingenious machine for manufacturing metal spoons, forks, and other articles, was made the subject of a patent by Jonathan Hayne, of Clerkenwell, in May, 1833. He employs a stamping-machine with dies, in which the hammer is raised lo a height between guides, and is let fall by a trigger. He prefers fixing the protuberant or relief portion of the die to the stationary block or bed of the stamping-machine, and the counterpart or intaglio to the falling hammer or ram.

The peculiar feature of improvement in this manufacture consists in producing the spoon, ladle, or fork perfect at one blow in the stamping-machine, and requiring no further manipulation of shaping, but simply trimming off the barb or fin, and polishing the surface, to render the article perfect and finished.

Heretofore, in employing a stamping-machine, or fly-press, for manufacturing spoons, ladles, and forks, it has been the practice to give the impressions to the handles, and to the bowls or prongs, by distinct operations of different dies, and after having so partially produced the pattern upon the article, the handles had to be bent and formed by the operations of filing and hammering.

By his improved form of dies, which, having curved surfaces and bevelled edses, allow of no parts of the faces of the die and counter-die to come into contact, he is enabled to produce considerable elevations of pattern and form, and to bring up the article perfect at one blow, with only a slight barb or fin upon its edge.

In the accompanying drawings, fig. 1344 is the lower or bed die for producing a spoon, seen edgewise; fig. 1345 is the face of the upper or counter-die, corresponding;



fig, 1346. is a section, taken through the middle of the pair of dies, showing the space in which the metal is pressed to form the spoon.

To manufacture spoons, ladles, or forks according to his improved process, he first forges out the ingot into flat pieces, of the shape and dimension of the die of the intended article ; and if a spoon or ladle is to be made, gives a slight degree of concavity to the bowl part ; but, if necessary, bends the back, in order that it may lie more steadily and bend more accurately, upon the lower die; if a fork, he cuts or otherwise removes portions of the metal at those parts which will intervene between the prongs; and, having thus produced the rude embryo of the intended article, scrapes its entire surface clean and free from oxidation-scale or fire-strain, when it is ready to be introduced into the stamping-machine.



He now fixes the lower die in the bed of the stamping-machine, shown at a, a, in the elevations figs. 1347. and 1348., and fixes, in the hammer b, the upper or counter-die c, accurately adjusting them both, so that they may correspond exactly when brought together. He then places the rudely-formed article above described upon the lower die, and having drawn up the 1347 hammer to a sufficient elevation by a windlass and rope, or other ordinary means, lets go the trigger, and allows the hammer with the counter-die to fall upon the under die, on which the article is placed; when, by the blow thus given to the metal, the true and perfect figure and pattern of the spoon, ladle, or fork is produced, and which, as before said, will only require the removal of the slight edging of barb or fin, with polishing, to finish it.

On striking the blow, in the operation of stamping the article, the hammer will recoil and fly up some distance, and if allowed to fall again with reiterated blows, would injure both the article and the dies; therefore, to avoid this inconvenience, he causes the hammer on recoiling to be caught by a pair of palls locking into racks on the face of the standards, seen 1348. In fig. 1347 the hammer b. of the stamping-machine, is seen raised and suspended by a rope attached to a pair of jointed hooks or holders d, d, the lower ends of which pass into eyes e, e, extending from the top of the hammer. When the lever or trigger t is drawn forward, as in fig. 1046, the two inclined planes g, g, on the axle h, press the two legs of the holders d, d, inward, and cause their hooks or lower ends to be withdrawn from the eyes e, e, when the hammer instantly falls, and brings the dies together : such is the ordinary construction of the stamping-machine.

On the hammer falling from a considerable elevation, the violence of the blow causes it to recoil and bound upwards, as before mentioned; it therefore becomes necessary to catch the hammer when it has rebounded, in order to prevent the dies coming again together ; this is done by the following mechanism :–

Two latch levers i,.i, are connected by joints to the upper part of the hammer, and two pall levers k, k, turning upon pins, are mounted in the bridge l, affixed to the hammer. Two springs m, m, act against the lower arms of these levers, and press them outwards, for the purpose of throwing the palls at the lower ends of the levers into the teeth of the ratchet racks n, n, fixed on the sides of the upright standards.

Previously to raising the hammer, the upper ends of the pall levers k, are drawn back, and the latches i, being brought down upon them, as in fig. 1345, the levers k are confined, and their palls prevented from striking into the side racks; but as the hammer falls, the ends of the latches i strike upon the fingers о, о, fixed to the side standards, and liberate the palls, the lower ends of which, when the hammer rebounds, after stamping, catch into the teeth of the racks, as in fig. 1046, and thereby prevent the hammer from again descending.

Source: A dictionary of arts, manufactures, and mines - By Andrew Ure - 1858

Trev.