Quiz time

[piette]

Hi all,
Quick quiz for you all... What're these utensils used for in Imperial Russia?


Best,
P

[Qrt.S]

Hehee piette :-)))) This question has been debated earlier, look here and you find the answer:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42144&p=119187&hilit=aspic+servers#p119187

The fork does not belong the this pair of two, but is a part of a larger "serving/cutlery" set. Note that you keep the "shovel" in your left hand and the"sickle" in your right hand. Its cutting end is "inside" like in a sickle.

[AG2012]

An auctioneer from elsewhere quoted

The sickle was intended to get out of a block of ice to be able to chop and smaller pieces with the spoon one could then boast, bv to dishes to cool or for the champagne.

[Qrt.S]

Never believe what auctioneers och auction houses say or write in their catalogs. Their main target for them is to sell and sell again. if they don't know what the object might be, they invent whatever nonsense and/or create a story in order to convince a stupid buyer to throw away his money. It is what is explained in the links I attached i.e. aspic server! Do you really believe that the sickle is strong enough to break ice with?

Alternatively the sickle is the original tool from the late Soviet's coat of arms but the sledgehammer has been lost.....hahahhaaaa!

[Goldstein]

Hi AG2012 -
your answer is nearly correct - only mistake is that in the German language we commonly distinguish not between ice and softice. Official, correct answer must be: soft ice knife. And to prevent another misunderstanding: yes, softice in those days was delivered in blocks.
Here some other exemplares:

[Qrt.S]

The links prove and show clearly that the pair is aspic servers! Why are you arguing Goldstein? Check the links and read the text?

[Goldstein]

Hi Qrt.S -
please not again. In various parts of a country (I speak from Germany) there are different eating habits and eating preferences. While in northern Germany aspic was common - the south preferred more delicious things like icecream (softice). By its proximity to Austria and Italy (the homeland of softice) it was only logic. I never heared of softice specialties from Finland....but Austria and Italy were famous for it. If you can sleep better we can speak of an utensil used for aspic or softice depending on your eating habits - or I call mine softiceknife and you call your aspicknife.
Question: If it is only an aspic knife - what used the others for their softice and how was it called? Why nobody invented a softice knife?
Just some thoughts - no crusade. I am flexible - I recognize a softiceknife when I see one.......

[AG2012]

Goldstein What is softice in German, please? Is it sorbet?
Cutting pate or aspic with concave, e.g. with the inner aspect of the sickle, does not make sense to me.
Auctioneers` descriptions cannot be taken for granted, but ``ice serving sets`` are being sold separately boxed, two pieces only, and described as ``ice serving sets``. Yes, Qrt.S , breaking ice makes no sense unless he thought of breaking ice cream in a bucket.But ``champagne`` does not fit.
Therefore I quoted.

[Goldstein]

AG2012 -

Globalisation! American simlyfication of life! Soft ice you can eat - hard ice (cubes) you put in your Scotch.
In Germany we spoke always of "Speiseeis" in contrary to all other forms of "Eis" (frozen lakes, Winter etc.).
If you call this sickel an "iceknife", in Germany everybody would understand you - because the older people still have experienced the proper use. Anglo-Americans do not understand how one would use this thin instument for cutting ice(blocks) - they used icepicks etc.
Othe countries - other cultures. Ice is not ice. If you find an old , complete set, it always consists of 6 characteristic spoons with the bowl in shell/drop form and the sickl - called Eisbesteck. Some call it Aspikbesteck. Depending on the region and the literatur you use.
A sacrilege to name the sickl a softeisknife if you have a catalogue in which it is named aspicknife.. ...I am old enough to have the actual use yet experienced in my parents' house. We did not like aspic and used it for softice, icecream and different sorbets.

[Goldstein]

Hi Qrt.S -
your Quiz belong in the plated silver section! Rusty objects....maybe to much hot aspic?
Warning: this is a joke - not an attack - here we have carneval...

[Qrt.S]

You probably mean my aspic servers in the link? Take a closer look Goldstein. The blades are goldplated iron but the handles carry silvermarks. Gilded iron is not so common. It is difficult to gild iron. Do you consider a knife with a blade of steel but a handle in silver as plated?

[AG2012]

Yes Goldstein, Eismasse aufgeschäumt und gleichzeitig gefroren. That was actually the only ice cream I was familiar with in Vienna and later in my Tempelhof-Schöneberg Kiez in Berlin. I mean, before globalization.

[Goldstein]

Qrt.S -
if you show no marks - yes I consider it´s plated. How do you know it´s iron? Different sorts of steel are usual used - mostly sorts with less carbon - the reason why the "old" kniveblades rusted like hell and were changed often into antirust (inox, nirosta etc.) blades.

[Goldstein]

Here the successor of the sickl and big shovel (soft)ice sevice fom the famous firm Bayermann in Riga:



(Soft)ice was delivered in smaller and more handy portions instead of large bars - so the "instruments" got smaller and more elegant.

[Qrt.S]

??? How do I know it is iron? There is a thing called magnet and if the blade reacts on that, it is made on of iron, very elementary indeed. Are we talking about the same object, this one? If not, what are we talking about?

Here the magnet test. On the picture above are visible an Austrian hallmark (lover to the left and a maker's mark and upper to the left).



You're hard to convince Goldstein and the handle is silver believe me.

[Goldstein]

Qrt.S -
we speak about your "Quiz -photo" with the rusty blades. Why not just show the marks on the handles? A photo tells more than hundred words.

Steels are alloys of iron and other elements, primarily carbon. They are magnetic.
Iron metal has been used since ancient times, although copper alloys, which have lower melting temperatures, were used even earlier in human history. Pure iron is relatively soft, but is unobtainable by smelting. The material is significantly hardened and strengthened by impurities, in particular carbon, from the smelting process. A certain proportion of carbon (between 0.002% and 2.1%) produces steel, which may be up to 1000 times harder than pure iron. Crude iron metal is produced in blast furnaces, where ore is reduced by coke to pig iron, which has a high carbon content. Further refinement with oxygen reduces the carbon content to the correct proportion to make steel. Steels and low carbon iron alloys along with other metals (alloy steels) are by far the most common metals in industrial use, due to their great range of desirable properties and the widespread abundance of iron-bearing rock.
All this is not very purposeful. If you say there are marks - OK. If you say it is silver - OK. It is not really important if it is silver or not. Important is if you know or just think it is silver! That is the reason why we all show photos - not to show off - but to prevent misunderstandings or mistakes.
Remember: we all learn every day something new - with the help of the forum and its members -at least I do!

[Goldstein]

Hi Qrt.S -
my appologies - I did not see that you do not started the Quiz! Naturaly you can not post pictures!!
Sorry again!

[piette]

The marks on the pieces are exactly as they should be. Warsaw 1908-17, Piotr Latkowski.

P

[Goldstein]

OK- why not show the marks? Latkovsi´s marks are not often seen.

[piette]

I didn't feel there was any need at the time to show the marks as this question was about the use of the object, not who made it, when and where. I will post clear photos tomorrow when I have the objects to hand.

P