Thunderbird designs?

[Oil paint]

I am new to Native American silver and this forum. I live in the UK and have purchased a few pieces only belt buckles. Buying online and from a well known auction site, I feel a belt buckle is a safer bet for a man than other jewellery, in that I can make is fit and wear it. I got this Thunderbird buckle. I have made a new part so to take a 1 3/4 inch strap. The original bit was for a much thiner belt and was not fixed at the ends and would pull out when done up tightly {shown in the pictures}. I believe it to be pre 1970s by the inclusion of turtle shell inlay, banned after 1970 something. There are no marks. On researching the Thunderbird design in the SW, I came across numerous claims in prestigious publications that the Thunderbird design was not Native American. The design being created by the white traders of Native American silver as a popular design for white tourists. I find this claim somewhat puzzling. The design may well have appeared in traders catalogues so forming the basis for this claim but with very little research I think one can say this claim to be nonsense. I am not trying to stir up trouble but is it a case of not only appropriating the Native American land but also a strong and successful art? The Thunderbird is carved on rocks in the SW. Here are some photos of Thunderbird images in Native American use from the plains 1890 to Navajo in the mid 20th century, why would they use a white mans version of Indianness? when being Native American. Any answers? I have another two buckles which I might add to other topics.

[Aguest]

I run across spurious information about silver styles and motifs on the internet all the time, and just because the website looks official and is professionally produced does not mean the information is 100% correct. Certainly when traders like Fred Harvey made contact with the Tribal artisans, more and more pieces became adapted to the tastes of the non-native customer, I suppose is the best way to put it. If a certain design just flew off the shelves, it would make sense that it would take priority over other designs, and of course there is the famous "Whirling Log" image which was really not seen after 1945 for obvious reasons.

Anyway, I had a belt buckle similar to yours, only without the tortoiseshell, and I really thought it was made in the 1950s by Frank Vacit. If Frank Vacit is not the maker of your piece, at least Frank Vacit would be a good place to start to become familiar with similar designs. It can be difficult because the early pieces were not hallmarked, so your belt buckle could theoretically be as old as the 1940s.

[Aguest]

The Kennedy Museum of art (Ohio University) has a belt buckle with tortoise shell in it which was made by Dan Simplicio. Dan Simplicio is another big name in Native American silversmith history, and since the tortoise shell is such a rare material, you might have an early unsigned piece made by Dan Simplicio. Dan Simplicio's pieces were often unsigned, so this is not uncommon, and I once found an unsigned ring which was easily attributed to him based on style and construction.

It's often difficult to attribute a Native American maker, but hopefully there is a book somewhere with a similar piece such as yours, and that would help narrow down the search.

[Aguest]

One more thing, the strap looks like a new strap, the leather and the screw on the leather look more modern than the belt buckle, and I believe the strap has been attached to the belt buckle in two places which seem to be more modern as well.

That is just my opinion, though, and there are Native American jewelry experts whose knowledge is unbelievably advanced, and these experts own all the reference books and these reference books are very important in attribution of a particular artist, but at least I did offer a couple of names which seem similar in order for you to get more experienced with the general field of Native American belt buckles.

Some collectors prefer a more "hand-made" kind of design with more irregularities and eccentricities and rough-hewn aspects, and I can appreciate this belt-buckle for its intrinsic beauty. All Native American silver art should be appreciated, and not just the big names or the big signed pieces that the museums seek to acquire.

[Oil paint]

Thank you so much for your very informative reply. I made the leather belt. The original bit that a belt is attached to is on one of the photos of the back. It was for a thin belt that did not suit me. Also it was not fixed in the location lugs so would pull out if done up tightly. I am still sourcing photos of native Americans displaying thunderbird iconography.

[Oil paint]

Another buckle of mine. I assume it is Navajo. It takes a 2inch so I wear it less often but I love. I got the belt made for it.

[Oil paint]

No idea about this one. It only takes 1 1/8 inch belt so I do not really wear it even though I made a strap for it. Thanks for any help on this one.

[Aguest]

Another possibility is Fred Natachu or Lolita Natachu who also worked together as Fred and Lolita Natachu ::: I noticed belt buckles which used tortoise shell in their construction, and your belt-buckle might be an early work by one or both of these artists ::: I feel like the "thunderbird" is distinctive enough such that a serious expert in Native American jewelry could "attribute" the belt-buckle to a certain artist, yet I do not know which one :::