Brazilian or Spanish Colonial

[joho]

Hi All. After many years of trying, I have still been unable to identify these two silver chatelaine type objects. They look as though they would hang from a belt and hold keys or other objects. I have wondered whether they may have been part of a priests paraphanalia. They are 9cm long and are quite heavy for their size. I have listed them in the South American forum as they have the number 10 in the hallmarks which may possibly relate to Brazil. The other marks are P and M. The items look to date from the 18th or 19th century. Would be grateful for any help!! Many thanks.
John

[Aguest]

The “fist” is called the “figa” and you will see this element of design on spoons from Brazil. :: somewhere there is a list of Brazilian hallmarks commonly seen on silver, and I think I remember the number ten is associated with Brazil. :: I have owned a few figa spoons. ::

[joho]

Hi Aguest. Thank you very much for your comments.

I think we both agree that the number 10 is associated with Brazilian silver. Unfortunately I can find no comprehensive list of Brazialian silversmiths so possibly we can never find the maker! I was not aware that the fist is known as 'figa'. Do you know whether there is any religeous connection to the 'figa'?

Kind regards
Joho

[dragonflywink]

Interesting objects, would also think 10 dinheiros marks and likely Brazilian - but I'm not seeing a 'figa' (fig), which is a very specific kind of 'fist', unless there is a thumb in the correct orientation that you haven't shown, just looks to me like a hand holding a ring, more a decorative devise. Personally, not seeing a religious connection - is there a reason you suspect use by a priest?

~Cheryl

[joho]

Hi Cheryl

You are correct, there is no thumb orientation which might have suggested a 'figa'.

I have no real reason to think it may have a religious connection - just that I believe that much of the early silver produced in Brazil was Church rather than secular and I could sort of imagine a priest having these attached to his belt. I wonder if there is any significance to their being a pair??

So far 3 - 0 to Brazil

John

[Aguest]

I have seen the “hand” imagery in Catholic silver objects, but I came to the conclusion that it was more of a general theme of the Victorian era rather than Catholic specifically, although it does occur in Catholic silver objects. ::: I had a 14k gold pocket watch chain with a hand gripping a baton that moved back and forth, so is it possible that these are meant to be attached to a pocket watch chain? ::

Are the handles made of one piece of solid silver?

[joho]

Hi Aguest

Interesting view on the possibility of it being a watch chain holder. I am not sure.......

Yes, the 'handles' are made from one piece of silver, folded over.

John