Stumped! "London" hallmarks but NO DATE letter?

[redmancge]

Hi All
Been a long time reader and user of info on this board in my many years of collecting. My reason for first posting is I've never been so stumped. These were sold to me sight unseen as being English sterling forks by Foxall & Co, London. As you can see the hallmarks appear to be correct with Lion Passant then older Leopard mark with what appears to be crown BUT NO DATE LETTER. The F & Co mark is used by Foxall but all I can find say that its set in a rectangle and this appears to just be stamped. Anyone ever seen a no date letter piece. The marks appear very old and worn oh and by the way the lion appears to be facing straight ahead not toward you. Any help or ideas greatly appreciated as I know of read from so many other "experts" here. Thanks from fellow collector.

[silvermakersmarks]

This is not a British hallmark. It falls into the category of "pseudo-marks". I suspect an American origin from the use of the word "patent"; this is very rarely seen on British silver. I should also point out that Foxall & Co would have had a Birmingham hallmark.

Phil

[redmancge]

Hi Phil
Thanks for your reply. Considering the "Lion Passant and what looks like the leopard head would you think sterling or not and not sure what you mean by pseudo mark. Any idea if that would make it sterling or plate? Thanks

[wev]

These marks (the lion/leopard) are the marks of an unidentified New York wholesale manufacturer c 1835-1860. It is found with the shop mark of a number of retailers in New York and New Jersey. They are most likely coin silver.

[dragonflywink]

An 'Olive' pattern variant...

~Cheryl

[silvermakersmarks]

For a definition of pseudomarks see this site's Glossary section.

[redmancge]

Thanks to all for your responses. I think the idea of them being early coin from America makes most sense. I appreciate everyones input. It was really bugging me with those hall marks and "no date mark". I think between you all I got it closely narrowed down anyaway. Thanks again.