Unknown silver mark

[Blaylock]

Hi all,

I have a, probably late 18th century, pocket watch with some nice silver marks.
Can someone identify this silvermarks?



Thanks!

Jeroen

[JayT]

Hello and welcome!
These are French marks:
-the one in the lozenge shaped reserve is a maker’s mark for A.P. Forget. Arminjon doesn’t give much info about him, other than he worked in Paris at 2 different addresses - 24 quai Pelletier in 1811, and 2 rue St-Eloi in 1819. He registered his mark in 1810; no end date is given, but he was listed in the trade journal l’Amanach Azur from 1811-1822. See Arminjon, v. I, no. 00383, p. 77.
-the mark in the octagonal reserve with a border is the silver standard mark for 950 silver, in use from 1809-1819. The mark is quite rubbed, but you should be able to see a fighting cock facing right with the number 1 under the wing on the right.
-you should also have a guarantee mark to show that tax had been paid. This mark doesn’t appear in your photo; perhaps you can find it on another part of the case? If this is a small object, the mark will be very small.
-the mark of a horse’s head facing left in an oval reserve is an anomaly. This is the silver standard mark for 843 silver used for one year only in 1797 during the immediate post-Revolutionary period. This mark does not concord with the other two marks, and I don’t know why it is there. Perhaps someone else has an idea about the horse.
Regards,
JayT

[Blaylock]

Hi Jay,

Thank you for the information. The pocket watch is, based on its typology, a late 18th century watch. Probably there is some reason we will never know, why there is a 1797 en early 1800's mark on the watch.
There is e small mark on it, I hope the picture is ok?



I will post some other marks from other late 18th century watches as well (probably all French).

Regards,
Jeroen

[JayT]

Hello Jeroen
Please see the following link for an excellent overview of the French marking system:

http://www.925-1000.com/Ffrench_marks.html

In France, as of June 19, 1798, makers were required by law to stamp their works with a mark in a lozenge-shaped reserve. The system in France for precious metals was highly regulated, so we do know when and where an object was made by the appearance of the marks.

The maker’s mark consisted of initials or name spelled out, and a symbol. In addition, there had to be other marks: the silver standard (poinçon de titre) and duty mark (poinçon de garantie). Therefore, if your object has a lozenge-shaped maker’s mark, it dates after 1798. We know the maker was Forget, and his working dates are first quarter of the nineteenth century. Eighteenth century pre-Revolutionary maker’s marks looked very different. I don’t know enough about watches to know whether the watchcase can post-date the watch mechanism, but your watch case is definitely not earlier than when Forget first registered his mark.

As for the horse’s head, this was one of those marks that had no regulatory significance, but carried over from the brief, chaotic post-Revolutionary period.

I can’t see the other mark you show well enough to identify it.

Hope this helps to clarify.
JayT