Help with identification and conflicting marks

MARK IMAGE REQUIRED
Willpower
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:27 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Help with identification and conflicting marks

Postby Willpower » Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:02 am

I am a relatively new to silver hallmarks — but have managed very well with the help of 925-1000 website and others up until now.

However, I do have something I am finding difficult to identify as it appears to have some conflicting marks. If I describe this necklace perhaps someone might be able to help me?

The necklace is substantial and has some real age to it. It is around 20inches (550mm) long weighing approx 45gms — and it has some beautiful detail on it.

The hallmarks suggest it is from London but the period doesn’t seem to match the markings. There is a Leopards Head (difficult to tell if it’s crowned or uncrowned; followed by a clear lion; then a date symbol which appears to be a fancy X or K.

If it’s an X and is London — then would it appear to be 1997 but I know that this is much older. Also, the Leopard comes before the Lion which again denotes a much older date — later it was changed where the Lion comes first.

If it is the X which is the closest match it appears to be Birmingham 1846 — but then it does not have the Anchor which denotes Birmingham — just the Leopard.

Finally, the makers/importers details. Again very difficult to confirm a listing anywhere. It is JCL (could be JC Ltd) in an oblong box with points at each end pointing inwards.

Can anyone help me to identify exactly what this is — how old, where it was made and by whom? Would very much appreciate your kind assistance.

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JLDoggett
co-admin
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Location: New Hampshire

Postby JLDoggett » Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:51 am

Willpower, you watch-chain appears to have been marked in London in 1997. The date-letter has to many distinctive details IE. the crook on the upper left arm and the single center bar for it to be a perfect match.

Willpower
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:27 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Any more details

Postby Willpower » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:39 am

Thank you so much for your quick response to this very much appreciated.
Your comments follow my initail thoughts completely, but I do understand that this was given as a present well before 1997 from a very reliable person hence my re-think and research.
The X mark doesn't comply with the London 1997 style - and yet it does exactly conform to the Birmingham mark. Also my research has confused me a little further - the more modern London marks seem to have the the Lion first the earlier have the Leopard - this has the Leopard first then the Lion.
It's also interesting to note that on the opposite clasp we only have the word STERLING with nothing else such as 925 - just STERLING on its own -again an indication of an earlier date?
Finally, it still doesn't bring me any closer to the maker/importer which I would dearly love to find.
Does this make any sense?
I am trying to learn more about silver hallmarks in general and have been successful up until this - anything more anyone can tell me would be very much appreciated.

MCB
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Location: UK

Postby MCB » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:13 am

Hello Willpower,

Could the second mark be the crown for Sheffield? If so the "X" mark letter style fits with the one used there in 1915.
Sorry I can't help you with the maker's mark.

Mike

Willpower
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:27 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Postby Willpower » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:00 pm

Hi Mike
Very interesting - indeed it could well be a crown - a little worn over the period so not too clear. Thank you, you may have gotten to the bottom of the date.
I still would dearly like to know the maker - perhaps someone can point me in the right direction?
Will

MCB
moderator
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Location: UK

Postby MCB » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:36 am

Hello again Willpower,
Probably your quickest course to identify the maker would be to contact the Assay Office direct at http://www.assayoffice.co.uk and click on the Library & Silver Collection page then the Mark Identification sub page.
If you discover who registered the mark please let the forum know.
Regards,
Mike

Willpower
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:27 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Postby Willpower » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:38 pm

Hello Mike
Thanks again for your direction - I have had a look at the site and have now posted a request for further information which will hopefully arrive in the not too distant future.
I will of course let you know when I hear something.

I have also conducted further research of my own - and, as you would expect, it's not easy. Unless I'm miss reading this mark and it could be JGG - John George Graves - sheffield watch maker back around this time - then there appears to be no record as yet - but I will keep you informed.

If anyone else knows anything - perhaps they might join the conversation?
Will


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