Please Help On Lack Of Marks - Silver Bowl

[palmpixie]

This is a heavy silver waste bowl or candy dish? I have searched for marks and can find none, but it does have interesting motif - is it a pinecone, pineapple or grapes finial? Would like to know if the pattern is recognizable and why it would not have any hallmark. Thank you.

http://pictures.aol.com/galleries/esquire380

[Hose_dk]

I would call it a bonbonniere
picture 2 - does it not have a mark? try to look careful.

[palmpixie]

My Bowl is not silver plate - it is very heavy and the inner lip of the lid is maliable...soft...almost like solid silver. I will try to post one more pic...sorry for all the trouble and thanks for helping!

http://shutter15.pictures.aol.com/data/ ... uP0177.jpg

[kerangoumar]

I think you will find as a general rule that silver (vs. plated) items have some marks, for a variety of reasons - guarantee of quality, sign that duties have been paid, pride of the smith, etc. In a case such as this - if it were solid silver- one would think that the smith had signed his work somewhere. Sometimes the marks are "hidden in plain sight" within the ornamentation. Have you examined it with a loupe or magnifying glass?

[palmpixie]

I have looked with a magnifying glass, just about everyplace. I have some other silver pieces, including a lovely tea set. Most poeces are plated. But this bowl or dish is quite heavy for the size and again, I can actual mold the inner lid's lip with my fingers. There is much tarnish, but no brass showing and I can rub the tarnish off with my fingers as well.

I love the piece but am intrigued as to why there is no mark of any kind on it... It is otherwise so ornate. I have better pictures but could only load the smaller ones and only 5 of them, at that.

Thanks yo you all for any and all help.

[kerangoumar]

Re the tarnish - really rub your finger over the tarnished parts, then examine it - what colour is it? and smell it - what smell does it have?

[palmpixie]

Yes, I am able to take off tarnish with rubbing my finger on it. It looks like blackish-grey tarnish on the piece and it makes my thumb black [almost like fine particles on my thumb] I didn't really notice an odor except when I rubbed my thunb a bit...maybe a slight metal smell? The rubbing made that portion of the lid, shiny [when I used polish in the past, it was like a mirror, almost]. I have enclosed a new link to show the lid...tarnished side and side that I rubbed, then a "birdseye" view of the last...and last, a pic of the "trim" running along side the lid. It looks as though it was wrapped around because you can see what appears to be an overlap or seam on the right - middle edge. Again, Thanks to all for whatever help you can give. Again, I don't think this is plated..I have a Reed & Barton tea set that is plated and it feels different.

http://hometown.aol.com/myhattrick18/index.html

[kerangoumar]

Thanks for posting the extra pictures. If you are disappointed by my comments please keep in mind that we are working from pictures and not from first-hand observation and handling of the metal. As mentioned previously, your best bet would be to have a jeweller test the metal in two or three inconspicuous places.

Along with the total lack of marks - and you did go over it with a magnifying glass - the fact that there is a seam in the rope border bodes ill for this being sterling or high-grade silver. Any silversmith making an object of so intricate a design would take great care not to make such a faux-pas, especially up top where everyone can see it. Please also take a look at the picture in the first row, on the right. The lines around the ovals - designed to approximate rope, most likely - are not well done: they overlap and interfere with one another from oval to oval, and there are two or three visible faults that resemble box-like projections at the centre of the oval.

Moreover, that there is no odour other than "a slight metal smell" also suggests that this is not silver; silver oxidizes with the sulphur in the air (one reason why unwrapped silver tarnishes mightily in a house heated by gas) and the sulphur gives the somewhat sticky oxide a greenish hue as well as a sour, tangy smell that lodges in the back of your throat and is forever remembered. The metal became shiny because you rubbed the tarnish off. And silver is not the only metal that tarnishes.

You may note that I did not give you any hints or clues when I asked about the tarnish - because I wanted your objective observation. Re the polishing, I have two white metal boxes that my daughter asked me to clean - they are just current dollar-shop items - well, they polished up very nicely with a bit of Hagerty's cream that contains jeweller's rouge, so being able to get an almost mirror-like finish is not meaningful for the purpose of identification.

[Hose_dk]

The original pictures. Picture no 2 I think that I see something at the handle - is it a mark?

[Hose_dk]

And what is this?

[palmpixie]

That mark on the lid was tarnish, though some dark spots in the photos are reflections of me, camera, room, etc I still see nothing by the handles, this time looking with a jeweler's loup.

I polished it briefly, with Wright's Silver Polish [a paste] and it came out shiny. There is no pitting or brass-like color, at all, as I sometimes see in my other pieces.

Please, you are not at all offensive. This is why I came here. I love this bowl no matter. Indeed, I recognize that, though ornate, this piece is very primative. That was endearing to me, as I imagined the apprentice was trying to impress his master, but upon being displeased, the master refused to grant his mark. ;-)

I am still intrigued about the finial. It looked as though it could have been a pineapple or a bunch of grapes. But, as it appears to be sitting on an Oak or Maple leaf [is that round ball with the hole an acorn?] I go back to thinking it is a pinecone. Yes, I realize that if it is a pinecone, it shouldn't be on a Maple leaf with an Acorn from an Oak. Perhaps this is what furied the master.

New photos are posted below, and I will try a jeweler to identify the content. Again, Thanks to you all.

http://hometown.aol.com/palmpixie380/index.html