Hallmark Identification

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niceguy1
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Hallmark Identification

Post by niceguy1 »

HI

Who might this be?

Image
dognose
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Re: Hallmark Identification

Post by dognose »

Hi Niceguy,

These resemble close-platers' marks. Is it definitely silver?

Trev.
niceguy1
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Re: Hallmark Identification

Post by niceguy1 »

No, plated is a possibility too.
Heamatite
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Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:45 pm

Re: Hallmark Identification

Post by Heamatite »

How fascinating to see this. I was researching the Gibbs family at the time and this popped up. Yes Close or soldered plate and yes from Birmingham.
This is the second item seen with the mix of these two distinct makers marks. George Bott Dunn, 1783- 1832 registered his mark at Sheffield in 1810 and Thomas Harwood in 1816. Joseph's son, also a plater on steel, born c 1799 died the same year as George Bott Dunn. I am presuming plated on steel however given their working lives it would be possible the base was nickel alloy.
No formal partnership between the two platers has turned yet up but thank you so much for sharing this.

Heamatite
Heamatite
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Re: Hallmark Identification

Post by Heamatite »

Apologies for misinformation in previous post. I meant to have said Gibb rather than Harwood ! Gibbs mark was registered in 1808 .
Heamatite
dognose
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Re: Hallmark Identification

Post by dognose »

If, presuming that there was a fault with the punch, and it should read 'Gibbs' then there are several candidates for the user of this mark.

William Gibbs of Foredrough Street, Birmingham (usually associated with the manufacture of plated buttons)
Joseph Gibbs, the successor to the firm of James & Gibbs, Newhall Street, Birmingham
George Gibbs, Little Charles Street, Birmingham
George Gibbs, Coleshill Street, Birmingham (usually associated with the manufacture of tea-urns)
H. & J. Gibbs, Great Charles Street, later, Little Charles Street, Birmingham
Gibbs & Co., Newhall Street, Birmingham
Gibbs, Joseph & Co., (usually associated with the manufacture of buttons and cutlery)

The mark we usually associate with close-plated articles is that of George Gibbs of Little Charles Street, but in this case there appears to be an element of doubt.

Heamatite, can you share some more of your researches into the Gibbs family?

Trev.
Essexboy Fisher
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Re: Hallmark Identification

Post by Essexboy Fisher »

Hello, nice marks , nice information. We do have an image of George Bott Dunn's mark in the "Old Sheffield Plate" section of Our website. Also there is an image of a mark of Joseph Gibbs of Birmingham featuring a Staffordshire knot listed.
I also was concerned about the "Gibb "spelling. "Gibbs" is with an "S" in the reference section, not as we see in "Niceguy1's" photo. Have we definitely got a correct "Gibb" family? I know that over time surnames will change, but is this the case here?
I found on line this extra snippet of information on Joseph Gibbs.

Image

Fishless
dognose
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Re: Hallmark Identification

Post by dognose »

Image
James & Gibbs - Birmingham - 18

Trev.
dognose
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Re: Hallmark Identification

Post by dognose »

Image

Image

Image

Image

Trev.
Heamatite
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Re: Hallmark Identification

Post by Heamatite »

Thank you so much for all the detail regarding Gibbs and Dunn of Birmingham. I have looked at the ladle mentioned and the marks and spacing are identical except that Gibbs is clearly cut including an "s" . The example shown and expertly photographed by Niceguy is definitely sans the s and not damaged. All very curious and another example of the marking delights found associated with soldered plate. All references seen do indeed confirm the surname of the makers Joseph and William as Gibbs so we are left with the conundrum as to whether we have evidence of a mistake by the punch cutter or another reason for the variation. A possible partnership of Dunn and William Gibbs, presumably ended with their deaths in 1832.

An earlier variation of the Gibbs marks is shown by Dognose taken from Bradbury published 1912 who ascribed two marks dated by him to 1808. The official record "Old Silver Platers and their Marks" issued by the Sheffield Assay Office in 1908 illustrates in uppercase Roman, GIBBS accompanied by a Staffordshire knot in one punch. Bradbury illustrates two Gibbs marks, neither of them "official" and not the smoked impression of the 4th of Feburary 1808. In fact the first of those Bradbury records seems to clearly omit the i of his surname! Bradbury also lists both Gibbs marks to G Gibbs whereas the Assay office record Joseph Gibbs.
Perhaps the Gibbs family set out to confuse future generations of punch perusers, other explanations are also be possible!

Heamatite
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