Help identifying silver marks

[helpme]

Hi,
please can anyone help me to identify these two silver marks?
Who is the silversmith?
How old are these items?
Pictures in the links below:


http://img157.imagevenue.com/loc344/th_ ... _344lo.jpg

(admin edit - only one item per topic - see Posting Requirements )

Many thanks,

Valerio, Italy

[helpme]

Sorry

[helpme]

Bigger picture


Many thanks