Damm - Poland, Prussia?

[admin]

Hi,
Found this mark on a pair of early 19th cent. salts & spoons that look Polish or Prussian in origin. Can anyone identify Damm.
Thanks, Tom

[Theoderich]

The 12 - means 12/16 =750/1000.
This was used in Germany before 1888.
The name Damm is also a German name.
I think it is not Polish, it is German.

[wolfgang]

Hi Tom, 2 Damms found in Germany, one in Altena, another in Minden, but in Scheffler without hallmarks, both early 19th
regards wolfgang

[Bahner]

Hello, there were also Damms working in Cologne, Flensburg and Graudenz (Western Prussia). This list is most likely incomplete, as the name Damm is not that uncommon. I feel Altena, Minden, Cologne and Flensburg can be excluded, the mark here looks so distinctly different from the city marks of these cities. The mark of Graudenz has not been documented very well, it is described as a bull's head. Can't really see a bull's head here - but who knows ? Best wishes, Bahner

[admin]

Bahner, Wolfgang & Theoderich,
Thank you for the information on this interesting puzzle. I will try and get an image of the piece itself this weekend. In the meantime here is an enlarged version of, what is presumably, the town mark in various orientations. I have also looked at it in all the angles between these four and still can not make head or tail of it. The top left seems to make the most sense, perhaps a stag?
Thanks, Tom

[wolfgang]

bull's head for Graudenz is according to Rosenberg 17th century, in 18th the letter "G"; the hallmark is neither a bull's head nor a G...
regards wolfgang

[jackk]

this is interesting. I used to have a spoon with the same exact mark and was never able to identify it. I suspected it might have been old german/prussian but no one was ever able to tell. All, I can say, you have a rare item in your hands. can you post a picture of the whole salt cellars?
Thanks,
Jack

[admin]

[jackk]

Thank you. That's a nice salt cellar.
Also, I have another clue as to identifying your items. However, it may be wrong. An old town in Poland - named Altdamm in german, Dabie in Polish, used to be called Damm. This town's coat of arms was "Gryf" and its image is attached. If the mark on the silver piece is representing the "Gryf" that's another story.

[Theoderich]

Could it be a stag ?

[Theoderich]

is it posible
(Nr. 1028) Book "silberstempel aus aller Welt" S. 144
Alingsas (Schweden)
End of 18. — begin of 19. Century

[jackk]

I do not have this book. Can you post a scan of that page?
Thanks,
Jack

[admin]

Here ya go,

[blakstone]

I think it's a stag, too, but definitely NOT Swedish; the other marks are all wrong for Sweden. Far more likely is the Lower Silesian city of Jelenia Gora, now part of Poland but in the 19th century part of Prussia (and later the German Empire) and known as Hirschberg; see this link.

[kerangoumar]

after having a really hard look at this image I think - rather than DAMM - it should be DAHM- compare the width of the two letters - to use a printer's term, the second-last letter is one em wide and the last letter is 1 1/2 ems wide - they really are not the same width at all.


As for the hallmark:

I don't know what it represents but it doesn't look like any stag or mammal in my reference works and on close examination almost appears as though the distorted figure obscures most of the original hallmark - if I interpret the image correctly - there is a foreleg still visible on the left. The distorted figure does not look like any hallmark I have ever seen - usually they are hard-edged and crisp (unless the punch has been well used).

[Theoderich]

I think it's a stag, too, but definitely NOT Swedish; the other marks are all wrong for Sweden. Far more likely is the Lower Silesian city of Jelenia Gora, now part of Poland but in the 19th century part of Prussia (and later the German Empire) and known as Hirschberg; see this link.

This is very interesting
Look on the mouth of the stag -
there is a little loop — like on a part of a leaf

[jackk]

I've ordered a few books on Polish silver. They should be arriving in couple of days. I'll let you people know if I find anything.

[admin]

Yesterday, I visited the dealer who'd been kind enough to allow me to photograph the mark, I'd hoped to photograph the marks from all 4 pieces to allow comparison, but the set had moved on.
Today, in an almost creepy bit of synchronicity, I stumbled upon this spoon in a local market. The spoon is as plain as they come, no drop, no nothing. The marks are far more worn, but seem to have been struck at an earlier time before the die picked up its disfigurements. To my eye, it is more obviously a stag.
Regards, Tom

[Bahner]

Hello, just a gut feeling - but I do not think this is Hirschberg. When Hintze wrote his two thick books on Silesian goldsmiths, he documented neither a Damm nor a Dahm in the whole of Silesia. Considering the wealth of documents still available then, a not uncommon name like that would not have escaped him. Sure - it still IS possible that there was an (evasive) Damm or Dahm there.

What strikes me is the form of the stag (really looks like one, I agree). It looks so much like the one in the coat of arms of the Counts of Stolberg, that I rather believe this piece stems from a maker in the Stolberg-ruled regions of Germany. Wernigerode especially comes to mind, it was ruled by the Stolbergs until 1825, when Prussia took over (which goes nicely with the style of the objects). After that they used a different city mark. There is very, very little on the goldsmiths of the Wernigerode region, so no Damm or Dahm there, either, so far. Well, as I said - just a gut feeling. Best wishes, Bahner

[kerangoumar]

Love those coincidences that prove the world is much smaller than one thinks. Actually the image of a leaping stag is much clearer in your recent find than in the original query. And it shows the cartouche's straight lines.

Bahner - My docs. show the 18th century beschauzeichen for Stolberg as a stag facing left, one foreleg up, in a round cartouche. (Wernigerode had a pike)