800M 875M

[Aguest]

I have 800 with M below stamped inside a spoon bowl around here somewhere. :::: Seems like a fineness mark to me as well. ::::

[oel]

Also see:
http://www.silvercollection.it/DICTIONA ... LGIUM.HTML

Peter.

[amena]

I return to this topic which has already been debated in depth.
I found this hallmarking on a teapot that the seller calls German. Just his opinion.

Next to the mark of fineness, 812M, is the Belgian import mark.
What to think?
Amena

[silverfan]

For me the question is solved. M means Millesimes (Tausendstel) without any doubt, is not a maker's mark and also not a Belgian mark because found on a lot of German pieces too. On amena's item the Belgian import mark proves that it is not produced in Belgium. The 812M mark was used in Germany in a very short time frame after the Lot era, I think after 1880 till 1884. 812 corresponds to 13 Lot. So without having seen the article I would date it in the mentioned years.
Regards silverfan

[silverfan]

A completing commentary: In my collection I found cake-plates marked 812 with Berlin assaymaster's marks from 1864-1868, time in which the change to the decimal system was discussed.
Regards silverfan

[Qrt.S]

The Gothic letter E in the mark stands for "étrangere" (foreign). It was used 1831-1868 as an import mark in BELGIUM! What is a bit strange is the fineness (812). Usually the unregistered Belgian standards were 800, 900 and 950 often followed with M or MIL. Anyway, this is a case for Oel. Let's wait for oel's comment!

[silverfan]

@Qrt.S
Your statement is not logical. There is an import mark. So the maker is not Belgian and a discussion of Belgian purity standards is misleading. The description as German by the seller seems right. See my preceding posts.
Regards silverfan

[Qrt.S]

Yes silverfan, bad wording from me, sorry. What I meant was that it has a Belgian import mark but not that it is made in Belgium. Actually I wrote that it is an import mark in Belgium

[Ubaranda]

Hello!
A small addition to the topic.
Regards.

[oel]

Hi, a whopper of a candle stick Deer Wildlife Animals in Nature Scene



Clearly made in Belgium 1869-1942. The gold and silversmiths did not have to register any longer and they did not have to present their works for assaying. Marks were no longer obliged. Nonetheless, one cold ask the authorities for an assaying against payment, but this was optional and only possible if the alloy was at least equal to a "legal title" In this case a mark A2 for silver (argent) , large works, for 800/000.

In most cases, such piece of work carrying this mark can be assigned a date between 1869 and 1900. The optional assaying still existed after 1900, but was not often asked for any longer.

Peter.

Source; Algemeen repertorium van de edelsmeden en van de merkenvan edelsmeedwerk in Belgie Walter van Dievoet II1798-1942

[amena]

Hi Peter
Just a little clarification.

Nonetheless, one could ask the authorities for an assaying against payment,

it means that only a silversmith could ask for for an assaying against payment, or anyone could ask for an assaying against payment,
In other words, could it be that a person who owned that candlestick, marked 800M, manufactured in Belgium or elsewhere, asked for an assaying against payment?
Thanks
Amena

[oel]

Hi Amena,

The candle stick appears to be without a maker's mark, fineness mark only. Unless it is not shown in the images provided by Ubaranda.
1869-1942; the gold and silver smiths did not have to register any longer and they did not have to present their work for assaying. Marks were no longer obliged. Anyone could ask the authorities for an assaying against payment, but this was optional. Indeed items offered for assay, equal to a Belgian 'legal title' could have been made outside Belgium.
Enjoy the weekend.

Regards,

Peter.
Source Walter van Dievoet

[amena]

Thanks a lot, Peter
All the best
Amena