Russian spoon

MARK IMAGE REQUIRED
niceguy1
Posts: 635
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:50 pm

Russian spoon

Post by niceguy1 »

HI

What information can you give me about these hallmarks? Ak, 1890, 84 & city mark.

thanks



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Goldstein
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Re: Russian spoon

Post by Goldstein »

Hi niceguy -

a sharp photo would help!

Looks like Reval - but too blurry to be sure.

Regards
Goldstein
Qrt.S
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Re: Russian spoon

Post by Qrt.S »

Senseless fantasy marking (read fake!)
Ubaranda
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Re: Russian spoon

Post by Ubaranda »

Hello!
This is Minsk. This coat of arms was approved in 1878, but began to be used as an town mark since 1890.
Perhaps the maker is A.Kreindel' (А.Крейндель).
Regards.

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Goldstein
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Re: Russian spoon

Post by Goldstein »

Hi Ubaranda -

thank you for the valuable informations!

Regards
Goldstein
Qrt.S
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Re: Russian spoon

Post by Qrt.S »

This is interesting. The marking is not according to the regulations. The fineness mark has no notches (should have after 1882) and there is no assayer's mark just a year, but as Ubaranda states....It is also notable that in 1890thies there was no assay office in Minsk. Ivan Chertenkov left after 1878---
Ubaranda
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Re: Russian spoon

Post by Ubaranda »

Qrt.S wrote:....It is also notable that in 1890thies there was no assay office in Minsk. Ivan Chertenkov left after 1878---
It's wrong. The assay office in Minsk existed until 1896. From 1882 until the closure of the assay office, the assayer was Artemiy Stepanov.
Ivan Chertenkov never worked in Minsk. From 1866 to 1883 he was the assayer at Kamenetz-Podolskiy.
Your mistake was caused by the fact that in a certain period of time in Minsk and in Kamenetz-Podolskiy there was the same town mark - two-headed eagle.
Regards.

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Goldstein
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Re: Russian spoon

Post by Goldstein »

Hi Ubaranda -

I really appreciate your contributions, which are supported by meaningful images and sources! I would appreciate it very much if we hear more from you! Many thanks!

Regards
Goldstein
Goldstein
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Re: Russian spoon

Post by Goldstein »

Hi Qrt.S -
Qrt.S wrote:Senseless fantasy marking (read fake!)
I love your bizarre expertise, your persistent "I know it all" and your confused writing style. Please stay as you are - never doubt yourself!

Regards
Goldstein
niceguy1
Posts: 635
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:50 pm

Re: Russian spoon

Post by niceguy1 »

HI ALL

I should have this set (as well as the other one i posted) in hand in a few weeks & will be able to post clearer pics.

Thanks for sharing your opinions.
Qrt.S
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Re: Russian spoon

Post by Qrt.S »

@Ubaranda,
Thank you for the valuable information. By time more and more pieces in the Russian silver jigsaw fall into their places.
Qrt.S
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Re: Russian spoon

Post by Qrt.S »

@Ubaranda
One more question, if you don't mind. In Postnikova Minsk is a mess that we all know. However, there are some other assayers mentioned there, among those Frolov, Uchatov and Sorokin. Is this correct or incorrect?
Thank you in advance.
Ubaranda
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Re: Russian spoon

Post by Ubaranda »

Qrt.S wrote:@Ubaranda
One more question, if you don't mind. In Postnikova Minsk is a mess that we all know. However, there are some other assayers mentioned there, among those Frolov, Uchatov and Sorokin. Is this correct or incorrect?
Thank you in advance.
Hello!
Information about Frolov and Ushatov is correct. Unfortunately, I have no information about Sorokin.
By the way, on the shown pictures the mark Б.Т belongs to the famous Minsk maker Borukh Topaz (Борух Топаз).
Regards.

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Qrt.S
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Re: Russian spoon

Post by Qrt.S »

@Ubaranda
Thank you very match. Do you possibly have the working period and forenames of Frolov and Ushatov...H, Nikolai? In Postinokva Ushatov's forenames are Aleksandr Vasilyevich...HY on the mark???

Matvei Sorokin in Minsk is mentioned in Postnikova #1896. However, as said Minsk is a mess in P, but correct or not?
Dad
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Re: Russian spoon

Post by Dad »

Ubaranda wrote:
Hello!
Information about Frolov and Ushatov is correct.
Hi. Tell me, please. Where you took information about Frolov and Ushatov?
Ubaranda
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Re: Russian spoon

Post by Ubaranda »

Qrt.S wrote:@Ubaranda
Thank you very match. Do you possibly have the working period and forenames of Frolov and Ushatov...H, Nikolai? In Postinokva Ushatov's forenames are Aleksandr Vasilyevich...HY on the mark???

Matvei Sorokin in Minsk is mentioned in Postnikova #1896. However, as said Minsk is a mess in P, but correct or not?
Yes, the name of Ushatov is Nikolay. He worked in 1871 - 1874. Unfortunately I haven't accurate information regarding the period of work of Frolov.

Qrt.S, especially for you I found the mark of Sorokin. The maker is Movsha Topaz (Мовша Топаз) - brother of Borukh Topaz.

Regards.

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Ubaranda
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Re: Russian spoon

Post by Ubaranda »

Dad wrote: Hi. Tell me, please. Where you took information about Frolov and Ushatov?
Hello!
From various sources, one of which is your posts on Russian forums. Is this bad? :-)

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Dad
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Re: Russian spoon

Post by Dad »

No problem. Your right is use of all sources in open access.
I ask about other (various) sources, which you noted.
Dad
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Re: Russian spoon

Post by Dad »

I can add that Matvei Sorokin never worked in the Minsk Assay Office.
Short time (1874-1877) assayer Matvei Sergeyev worked in Minsk Assay Office (after Yaroslavl) .
Ubaranda
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Re: Russian spoon

Post by Ubaranda »

Dad wrote:No problem. Your right is use of all sources in open access.
I ask about other (various) sources, which you noted.
Dad, many thanks for very useful information!
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