Russian marks? Fake or real?

MARK IMAGE REQUIRED
user701
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Location: UK

Russian marks? Fake or real?

Postby user701 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:50 pm

Russian, Latvian etc marks always confuse me (a bit of a minefield), so I am asking here for clarification as to whether these are Russian marks, fake or real, as I have no idea, sorry. Would be nice to label this correctly in my spoon collection.

They are on the side of a spoon handle

Image

Image

Thank you in advance in any help.

Goldstein
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Re: Russian marks? Fake or real?

Postby Goldstein » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:43 pm

Hi user701 -

the maker of your spoon is Filander, Samuel Zacharias from St. Petersburg 1832-1884 - known for his spoons.
source: PL, p. 199
Image

Regards
Goldstein

user701
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Posts: 425
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Location: UK

Re: Russian marks? Fake or real?

Postby user701 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:50 pm

Thank you so much Goldstein for that very quick ID, the first Russian spoon in my collection :)

Qrt.S
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Re: Russian marks? Fake or real?

Postby Qrt.S » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:37 pm

Some clarifications. Samuel Z. Filander was born in Elimä in Finland 1809. He worked as a journeyman with Thomas Coriander in Hamina in Finland before he left for St Petersburg and worked there 1832-1844. He returned to Turku in Finland 1844 but went back to St Petersburg 1845 and became master 1853. He died 25th of September 1868 at the age of 59 years. His widow Maria Paavilain continued with the workshop to 1881.

user701
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Location: UK

Re: Russian marks? Fake or real?

Postby user701 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:53 pm

Thank you Qrt.S for the additional information, all very interesting.

Ubaranda
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Re: Russian marks? Fake or real?

Postby Ubaranda » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:42 am

Qrt.S wrote:
"His widow Maria Paavilain continued with the workshop to 1881"

.This is really interesting, but the presented hallmarks refer to period 1882-1898. Moreover, I have examples of SF marks 1885 and 1888. I suppose that not Filander. But who?

Regards.

Image
Image

Goldstein
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Re: Russian marks? Fake or real?

Postby Goldstein » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:13 pm

Hi -
don´t worry - it was just one of the many gratis pre-sale requests of an eBay dealer without naming the source! Details are not interesting...

Regards
Goldstein

Qrt.S
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Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Russian marks? Fake or real?

Postby Qrt.S » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:22 am

I have also seen this SF mark dated after 1881 and wondered who it might be. The information that Filander's widow worked to 1881, comes from Bäcksbacka and is copied to Postnikova p. 199 #1850-1852. Bäcksbacka published his book in 1951. He never got the chance to investigate archives in the Soviet Union because he was not permitted to enter the country to investigate such archived "put aside capitalistic propaganda and trash"... Those were those days... Anyway, therefore I gather that it could be possible that the late S. Filander's widow worked longer than 1881, but? Moreover, there are many masters named and listed in Bäcksbacka whose marks are unknown and therefore not listed in neither Postnikova nor Ivanov or anywhere else. Unfortunately I have not managed to match any of them to this "SF". Therefore feel that the questioned SF/S.F. marks might be Filander's "ancestors'" but, I'm not sure at all... Maybe a journeyman continued after 1881, but, but but...? It is only a theory. There are still so many open questions regarding imperial Russian silver...too many!


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