Belgian Hallmarks 2

[Dendriet]

8 spoons and forks, all with the same hallmarks, silversmith and monogram.
These spoons / forks were also bought in Liege (The same Family but different Monogram)
I cannot read the letter in the Minerva head (O or D).
But if I look at the Makers Mark it could be from the same jewelry
Makers Mark EJ (with an animal head) Sheep again ??
Unfortunally i had to use another camera, en bad lights

Could anyone please kindly help me by identifying these hallmarks?
Thanks a lot in advance for your replies.
Dendriet

[Dendriet]

on closer inspection, the makers mark may also be CJ.
In all instances, the first letter is not clear visible.

Dendriet

[oel]

Hi again Dendriet,

The Hallmarks of the Kingdom of Belgium used of 1832-1869
1.) Double Janus head or fineness mark for .833, always in combination mark with the office mark.
2.) Unknown maker's mark (To me)
3.) Greek warrior head or office mark.
But you could see for yourself in Netherlands' Responsibility marks from 1797 part 1

Oel

[Dendriet]

@Oel, Thanks for your response
In 1831-1865 Leopold 1 was the first King of the Belgians.
Then it is not possible that this occurs in the Dutch responsibility brands from 1797 - present
Thanks again.

Dendriet

[oel]

I can assure you the hallmarks of the kingdom of Belgium are in Netherlands' Responsibility marks from 1797 in part 1 pages 86-90, . again the hallmarks not the Belgium maker’s marks.

Oel

[Dendriet]

Correction, text should have to be: “Netherlands Responsibility marks from 1797- present”

Dendriet

[Dendriet]

@ Oel, I also read page 14 and 15.
This all comes from the same family of Liège, where I bought other spoons and forks.
I suspect that it is from the same family silversmith from Liège
Should a different name true, then it is useful for those other maker's mark
That's why I posted this
Also here is a sheep in this maker's mark.
But I'm happy with any help I can get.
Thanks again

Dendriet

[oel]

Correction, text should have to be: “Netherlands Responsibility marks from 1797- present”

Dendriet

Hi Dendriet
Forget present, the present is only a moment in time, try edition!


http://www.hallmarking.com/hallmarking/registration"

Oel.

[oel]

No problem Dendriet we all are interested to identify the Belgium maker’s mark and the hallmarks are known.

Best,

Oel

[blakstone]

Walter Van Dievoet's latest book, Répertoire général des orfèvres et des marques d'orfèvrerie en Belgique, v. II: 1798-1942 (Brussels: Académie d'histoire de l'orfèvrerie en Belgique: 2010) attributes this mark to Emmanuel Joseph Jehu (1750-1808) of Mons (p. 216, mark E1.032), but this is clearly incorrect; it is unlikely Jehu's mark would still be in use in 1832, twenty-four years after his death. (The mark is definitely "EJ", by the way; I have seen very clear examples of it.)

Given the similar Liège provenance and the identical device, I think your guess that the marks in both your posts are linked in a good one. If the maker of the other pieces is Mathieu Jeanne (and I think it is), then "EJ" is assuredly his eldest son Étienne Jeanne, whom Van Dievoet notes took over his father's business after the latter's death in 1848. (Van Dievoet, Orfèvres de Liège, ibid.)

Hope this helps!

[Dendriet]

@ Blakstone, thank you for your comments and views.
I agree with your views and the experience you have in this.
Belgium is divided into two camps.
The French-speaking (Wallonia - France) and the Dutch-speaking (Flanders - Southern Netherlands)
This problem is still there.
And this translation is reflected in the registration of maker’s marks at that time.
You should know well the history of Belgium, to get a good idea of it.
That's why you see in the books Netherlands'Responsibility Marks from 1797 also marks the guarantee of France and Belgium and of course the Netherlands.

Thanks a lot for your reply
Dendriet