GÃ¶rlitz ?

Theoderich · Post by **Theoderich** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:05 am

Could it be GÃ¶rlitz?
in the book "Markenzeichen auf Silber" GÃ¶rlitz is a oval mark with a 12 on the top and an G down.
There is no crown like Paris(F) or Gent(B) or Gotha(D) ...

My question:
Is this GÃ¶rlitz or an other city in Germany?
The 10 (Loth) means 10/16 = 625 silver.
It is a spoon ca. 200 Jears old.

dinio · Post by **dinio** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:23 pm

Hi,

As far as I know this is a maker's mark (probably german) and not a german city mark.
I have not found this maker in my documentation, sorry.
Hope this helps.

Dinio

Theoderich · Post by **Theoderich** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:20 pm

dinio wrote:Hi,

As far as I know this is a maker's mark (probably german) and not a german city mark.
I have not found this maker in my documentation, sorry.
Hope this helps.

Dinio

Thank you, but I dont believe, that a marker take the finesilverpart to the own silvermark.
Tomorrow I will take a picture from a book with the silvermark of GÃ¶rlitz.

dinio · Post by **dinio** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:55 pm

Hi,

I do not think that the symbols below the 'G' letter are the figures '10'. I think that they correspond to the letters 'IO' instead. IO could stand for IOHAN for example or for a compound name.

I believe that this is a maker's mark because this shape (a triangle made of one letter above or below two other letters within a clove leaf outline) was rather usual in Germany when the maker had 3 initials. There is a lot of similar maker's mark in my documentation, but with other letters. As far as I know, there is no city mark with similar shape and disposition.

Regards,
Dinio

dinio · Post by **dinio** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:00 pm

I forgot to say that I never saw German pieces of cutlery made with a lower grade than 12 lÃ¶ths.
So a 10 lÃ¶ths spoon does not correspond to what I would expect.

Dinio

Theoderich · Post by **Theoderich** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:22 pm

12 Loth, 13 Loth usual
but there are also 11, 10 or 9 Loth

Theoderich · Post by **Theoderich** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:42 pm

dinio wrote:I forgot to say that I never saw German pieces of cutlery made with a lower grade than 12 lÃ¶ths.
So a 10 lÃ¶ths spoon does not correspond to what I would expect.

Dinio

10 Loth = 625

Theoderich · Post by **Theoderich** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:51 pm

http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/4bha-17-jpg.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GÃ¶rlitz Silvermark
Book
"Markenzeichen auf Silber"

dinio · Post by **dinio** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:43 pm

Thank you for these pictures. I was not aware of the existence of such low grade silver items in German cutlery.
Nevertheless I never saw a German city mark in a trefoil outline, whereas I saw a lot of German maker's marks in a trefoil shape. That is why I believed it is a maker's mark. But you seem so sure that I was certainly wrong.

Dinio

Post by **admin** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:41 pm

Hi Theoderich,
Although similar to the Goerlitz mark illustrated in Divis, it is different in both the cartouche shape and the position of the numbers.
I have to agree with Dinio, the mark seems more likely to be a maker's mark than a town mark.
Anyone have a copy of Rosenberg handy?

Regards, Tom

Bahner · Post by **Bahner** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:04 pm

Hi all, checked all of Scheffler's books - no match - unless I overlooked it. I also believe this is a maker' mark rather than a town mark. Best wishes, Bahner

Bahner · Post by **Bahner** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:07 pm

... forgot to add - no match in Rosenberg either, B.

Theoderich · Post by **Theoderich** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:24 pm

dinio wrote:Thank you for these pictures. I was not aware of the existence of such low grade silver items in German cutlery.
Nevertheless I never saw a German city mark in a trefoil outline, whereas I saw a lot of German maker's marks in a trefoil shape. That is why I believed it is a maker's mark. But you seem so sure that I was certainly wrong.
Dinio

Very seldom are 11 Loth (687)

Theoderich · Post by **Theoderich** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:23 am

dinio wrote:Thank you for these pictures. I was not aware of the existence of such low grade silver items in German cutlery.
Nevertheless I never saw a German city mark in a trefoil outline, whereas I saw a lot of German maker's marks in a trefoil shape. That is why I believed it is a maker's mark. But you seem so sure that I was certainly wrong.

Dinio

Most cities and principalities in Germany, put down a minimum standard of 12 or 13 Loth.
But there were other cities and countries that had no laws in this regard.
In most towns of Thuringia, there was no definition on the minimum standard.
One can see quite often, the 10 Loth - mark.
In the east of Thuringia are the cities of Gera and Greiz.

I found in the vicinity of these cities, the following mark. A spoon with the inscription 1818 and the mark (G/10) in an oval and the master's mark (J) in the oval.

I'm still a spoon with a lion and a (J) in the Oval. This lion would be a mark of the city Gera (or of Weimar).

Another spoon with a lion with the makersmark [Jahr] from Gera is also in my possession.

Johann Gottfried Jahr 1782- 1852 ; Master 1806 or his son
Karl Theodor Jahr (1819-1884) takeover teh business of his father in 1850
(ref. W. KlinglhÃ¶fer)